Another scar on Polish-Russian relations?

Radio Polonia ^ | 30.06.2005

[lizol]

Another scar on Polish-Russian relations?

30.06.2005

The citizens of Kaliningrad have sent the presidents of Poland and Lithuania invitations to the ceremonies marking the 750th anniversary of this Russian enclave wedged between Poland and Lithuania. Neither of the presidents were officially invited by the Russian authorities to attend the events beginning tomorrow. The invitations from the people of Kaliningrad were sent through electronic mail to the respective countries’ consulates in Kaliningrad and then forwarded to the presidents of Poland and Lithuania.

Mayor of Olsztyn, capital city of a province bordering with Kaliningrad, who, in turn, did receive invitation will not attend the ceremonies. A delegation will be sent instead.

[lizol]

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[SaltyJoe]

I'm too outside the politics to understand every thing. Perhaps there's "too much history" between Poland and Russia. The shared tradition of Prayer and a Eucharistic Devotion ought to calm such tensions and help to ignore temporal politics. If both can focus on a common vision, then maybe it can be on the future growth of Israel or some other shared heritage.

Just my 2 cents worth. God Bless.

[sergey1973]

Ordinary Russian citizens shown they could be smarter then politicians who claim to represent Russian people.

[Lukasz]

Right, if relation between Russia and Poland & Lithuania would be very bad then in fact the greatest harm would be for citizens of Kaliningrad enclave. Moscow never cared too much about enclave and seems to me that nothing changed. This anniversary is for them only great opportunity to organize “axis of weasels” summit, nothing else.

[Lukasz]

Main problem is not history but lack of culture and adventurous policy of post-communist politicians in Kremlin.

[RusIvan]

It is another hoax lizol. Too many comes from Poland.
I'm amuzed by part "not going" so:)). So much pretension in it.

Accualy no citizens may invite foreign officials on official celebration without oficial confirmation.

[RusIvan]

Right, if relation between Russia and Poland & Lithuania would be very bad then in fact the greatest harm would be for citizens of Kaliningrad enclave. ==

What harm Lukasz?:) I don't see one. It is funny to here such things from poles. DO you boost your self-importance that way?

The anclave will build relations with Germany and France and ignore others.

Moscow never cared too much about enclave and seems to me that nothing changed. ==

How do YOU the foregner may judge this? What if I will tell that "Warsaw never cared too much about Krakow"? Isn't it intrusive speech?

[RusIvan]

Main problem is not history but lack of culture and adventurous policy of post-communist politicians in Kremlin.==

Same way is for post-communistic politicians of Poland. Lack of culture shows this pretension with ilussive "invitation" and "not going":).

[Lukasz]

What harm Lukasz?:) I don't see one. It is funny to here such things from poles. DO you boost your self-importance that way?

Their lives are often connected with Poland and Lithuania, those two countries ARE two biggest foreign investors in this region. Their jobs are often connected with both countries, there is no way to avoid this. Only politicians in Europe who don’t want to Kaliningrad become a hole are Polse and Lithuanians, cause nobody wants to have backward neighbors.

The anclave will build relations with Germany and France and ignore others.

Another delusional idea, France and Germany don’t care about enclave at all. If they want something from Russia, then it is Siberian natural resources. Beside politician from the enclave have other priorities than those from Moscow.

How do YOU the foregner may judge this? What if I will tell that "Warsaw never cared too much about Krakow"? Isn't it intrusive speech?

In Poland such behavior is impossible but in Russia normal. None Pole would say that Poland should sell Krakow to other country, like you want to sell Kaliningrad. Must be some cultural difference :)

[RusIvan]

Their lives are often connected with Poland and Lithuania, those two countries ARE two biggest foreign investors in this region.==

You pay too many attention to money. I know that is europian way of thinking.
In Russia we don't pay such attention to it. If they invested something then they get profit. And no more importances with it.
SO if they decide to take back thier money then let them. I'm sure there will be another foreigners who will pick up profitable projects.

And second thought those countries may be biggest foreign investors but hardy biggest investors at all. Inner russian trade exchange with Kaliningrad are much bigger then international trades.

France and Germany don’t care about enclave at all. If they want something from Russia, then it is Siberian natural resources. ==

The energy is russian market specialization in Europe and Asia. In world markets each country has to have her marketing advantages. Russia's is energy: oil and gas.

And now transportation between Europe and Asia.
Biggest chunk of China's, Japan and Korea's trade stream passes Russia to reach Europe and back. The shortest way to Asia markets is through Russia. SO now Russia are modernising now her transport ways like Sibirian railways on growing profits from transportation services.

So it is big OK with France and Germany wishes to Russia. I like them.

BUT. Kaliningrad aka Kenigsberg is former german town and historical german lands. SO if Germans didn't forget that they are germans then they very care about fate of that region.

None Pole would say that Poland should sell Krakow to other country, like you want to sell Kaliningrad. ==

I didn't say that I wanted to "sell" Kaliningrad. I see it diffently then you. Russia won't take money for Kaliningrad. I want as many as that Kaliningrad become new russo-german mutual project. If in future it will come to german province then Russia won't object. And I would say the russian population of Kaliningrade either since there are lot to learn from germans. They may spead german experience and technology over all Russia. Like it was in times of Peter the Great.

For now it has to be mutual project with germans. The project will bring friendly relationship between Russia and Germany and more profit.
Russia may build there new atomic power plant to create more energy resources for future technological industry which Germany may create in there.

[Lukasz]

There is no sense to comment you crazy ideas, you certainly drink too much vodka :)

[RusIvan]

There is no sense to comment you crazy ideas, you certainly drink too much vodka :)==

I just thought that you say that:). Since no profit for Poland that no sence for you:)).

[Grzegorz 246]

Vodka, vodka uber alles - effect of new russo-german mutual project.

[lizol]

What harm Lukasz?:) I don't see one. It is funny to here such things from poles. DO you boost your self-importance that way?

Do you know which country's companies invested biggest money in Kalinigrad region? Try to figure out. I'll help you - it's not Germany, it's the one between Germany and the Region.

So - if those investments where withdrawn or new ones were given up - that would be a harm for the people from the Region, wouldn't it?

[RusIvan]

So - if those investments where withdrawn or new ones were given up - that would be a harm for the people from the Region, wouldn't it?==

Those companies are not charity aren't them? So they make money on thier investments.
SO if they withdraw then they will harm themselves. Since there will be another busnessmen who would pick up profitable projects.
I don't see no danger for people of future "Eastern Prussia" if some polish investents will dry up. Since germans for sure will invest into new russo-german project.

BTW germans may invest not only money but technology and leadership which are much more valuable then simply money. Russian energy and german technology may produce strong technological economy which will sell on vast russian market which will be open for mutual project and on baltic too.

SO noone go home those polish companies but noone will cry if they leave. It is just business.

[lizol]

You know Ivanyshka - go to Kaliningrad and say the same BS to the people living there.
You may be surprised how much they'd appreciate your valuable thaughts. (sarcasm)

This is really something, that scares me, when I think of Russia - that people don't count there. The only thing that really counts in your country is to preserve "greatness" of Russia - in the very sick meaning of this word.

"Polachyshki" don't want to dance as we play ? - let's treat them with disdain and hostility.
Many people in Kaliningrad may loose their jobs? - who cares - the important thing is, that we'll offend "Polachyshkov", we'll show them where their place is. At last - within some time Germans may come with their money so Kaliningradians must be patient. They must show, how much they love matushka Rossiya.
Some sacrifice is sometimes necessary to show Russia's opponents how much we scorn them.

The fact, that it will be people's sacrifice, not Putin's or his fellows is not important.

Man, what you're writing here is just scary.

I don't know if you can read Polish, but if you do - try to read this:
Zamrozony obwód ("A frozem Region"

[RusIvan]

You know Ivanyshka - go to Kaliningrad and say the same BS to the people living there.
You may be surprised how much they'd appreciate your valuable thaughts. (sarcasm)==

There in Kaliningrade few years ago new movement started: to restore Eastern Prussia. It is political party already.
SO it is people of Kaliningrad who first thinked about this.

Me, I just follow thier wishes. I find them are very thoughful and support them.

The only thing that really counts in your country is to preserve "greatness" of Russia - in the very sick meaning of this word.==

WHat is wouild do with "greatness of Russia"? Russia's greatness will be same. One thing only: That move will bring to Russia new friend and new profits.

Many people in Kaliningrad may loose their jobs? - who cares - the important thing is, that we'll offend "Polachyshkov", we'll show them where their place is. At last - within some time Germans may come with their money so Kaliningradians must be patient. ==

WHo said that some one (or me) wants "poliakov" home and lose profits. Let them stay.
But let treat everyone equal. "Poliaki" are NOT charitors of Kaliningrad. Let us remember.

[Atlantic Bridge]

It is wishful thinking that Russia is going to transfer the region around Königsberg to anybody. The bitter truth will be, that the Germans do not want it, the Poles do not get it and the Lithuanians are not even asked. This point of view is maybe not political correct, but it will be the reality.

Since the Sowjet regime failed to develop the heritage of the former wealthily German province, we should ask ourselves, how we can help the people who are living there today and how we all could benefit from changes to a more prosperous Russian "Kaliningrad" (The guy they borrowed the name from was a horrible a**hole. Therefore I like Königsberg better - couldn't it be translated in Russian?).

Poland and the Baltic republics probably have to live with this Russian pricker in their skin for the next 500 years. Therefore it is important, that we all keep and develop the contact to Russia, even if nobody is in love with Putin. Russia will change, but it will take time. Revolutions that lead to more freedom are only possible, if the (Russian) people get more contact with other free countries and the idea of freedom. The simplest way to achieve such a progression is more trade. This is something Poland should work on. Lamentation will change nothing.

[Lukasz]

Russian "Kaliningrad" (The guy they borrowed the name from was a horrible a**hole. Therefore I like Königsberg better - couldn't it be translated in Russian?).

Królewiec, it is Polish name for this city, Russian would be probably close to that.

Poland and the Baltic republics probably have to live with this Russian pricker in their skin for the next 500 years.

Relation between Poland and Russia/Germany don’t depend from history. General attitude of this countries toward us is the only important aspect.

The simplest way to achieve such a progression is more trade. This is something Poland should work on. Lamentation will change nothing.

Actually we don’t have any big problems with trade with them, I think that is because we are in EU. Politics and business should be separated and this is not rule in Russia.