Giving up hope on Lost Boy Scout

Billings Gazette ^ | June 30, 2005 | BECKY BOHRER, associated press

[digitalman]

YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK - He'd been so excited about the trip to Yellowstone National Park - camping under the stars, hiking in the mountains, hanging out with his buddies and fellow Boy Scouts.

What was supposed to have been a fun trip for 13-year-old Luke Sanburg has turned into a tragic ordeal for his family. Luke was feared drowned Monday, three days after falling into the brisk, fast-moving Yellowstone River and being swept toward a rapid. Yellowstone National Park officials said the focus of the scaled-back search effort had shifted from rescue to body recovery. "I think the family has come to that realization right now," incident commander Tim Reid said. A family spokeswoman tearfully spoke of Luke on Monday in the past tense, describing him as an outdoor enthusiast, a devoted brother, and a smart boy with sharp sense of humor. "He was fun to be around, he was as kind a young man and considerate as you'd ever want to meet," said JeNae Lay, an aunt. Early Friday evening, Luke and other boys from Troop 208 from Helena were pushing logs into the river when a log hit him and pushed him off into the 50-degree water, park officials said. Luke, who could swim, was only wearing shorts, tennis shoes and a cap. Shoes believed to be his were found over the weekend. Reid called the river conditions "unswimmable." Seven Scouts, including Luke, and three adults were on the trip. One of the boys and a group leader hiked six or so miles from the backcountry campsite in northern Yellowstone where the group was staying to call for help. Park officials said the emergency call was received about 9 p.m. Friday, about 3? hours after Luke was last seen. Hundreds of volunteers joined park officials in the search over the weekend, scouring a 14-mile stretch of the river. Kayakers were used as well, though Reid said the high water hampered their efforts. As water levels recede, he expects them to be used again, perhaps late this week. On Monday, some volunteers were stationed at bridges, such as one in Gardiner, a tiny park gateway town, watching the churning water below for any possible signs of the missing boy. The park also sent out two search teams, one for each side of the river, and a helicopter searched from the air. Park spokeswoman Cheryl Matthews said air and ground searches would continue, with decisions made on a day-to-day basis. As the holiday weekend approached, park officials were also contacting local outfitters and guides to ask them to report anything they might find related to the teen, she said. Lay said the family has been overwhelmed by the response to Luke's disappearance. Members of the family have been anchored at the local Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints and are drawing comfort from their faith, she said. Luke's parents have both participated in searching for their son, she said. "Luke was young man of incredible faith and spiritual maturity who loved and obeyed God as he'd been taught, and he'd been taught that by good parents," she said. Lay said the family has experienced a wide range of emotions during the past several days and is now trying to deal with the realization that Luke may be dead. "They've said frankly, sometimes drowning victims are never found," she said. "We'll deal with that one day at a time."

http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_176124033.html

[SandyB]

You must have never seen a raging mountain river, no adult could have saved him

Yes, I have, and if it were my child, I would go and get him.

From your answer, does that mean that if your child fell in, you would do nothing?

[SLB]

Many years ago I took my scout troop to a local pool one night for a swim test. I required the boys to swim nonstop, fully clothed for 100 yards before they could even get into a canoe on a lake for a ride. I got them at the deep end of the pool and told them to jump in and swim two full laps. One boy who was new jumped in and went straight to the bottom. He couldn't swim a stroke, but was ashamed to admit so to me or his peers. We fished him out and I assigned one of my Eagle Scouts to teach him to swim. Within a month he was going off the low board and scaring his mom as she thought he was going to drown. He is now a successful businessman and is taking his kids canoeing.

[RonF]

I just have to ask what the Scout rules are in terms of safety on trips such as this? Maybe the ratio of kids to Scout leaders isn't up to par? It saddens me to read stories like this. Hopefully the Boy scouts can revise what is already on the books for guidelines and come up with more strict rules for outings and camping.

The basic rules are posted in a document called "Guide to Safe Scouting", and it's posted on www.scouting.org. If you print it out, it's about 70 pages. There are also specific guides for aquatic activities, rock climbing, etc., and unit leaders involved in them must read them and take training courses in order to lead such activities.

But no training, experience, equipment, low Scout/Scouter ratio; in fact, no rules can overcome willful stupidity. Rules exist. But they have to be followed, and determined kids will generally succeed in violating the rules no matter how many leaders you have along.

I know that sounds harsh. I'd guess that the leaders told the kids, "Stay away from the river," and they didn't listen. And messing about with logs at the river bank, as was posted above, violates a few different principles of Scouting.

There's a reason why "A Scout is Obedient" is the 7th point of the Scout Law. I have to remind kids of that from time to time. Parents, too ....

[SLB]

You must have never seen a raging mountain river, no adult could have saved him.

It doesn't have to be a raging mountain river. Ever see the Ohio or Mississippi in flood stage? You could not pay me to get out there in a small boat, yet idiots do it every year and the Coast Guard or some other rescue unit gets to pull the bodies out.

[SandyB]

One boy who was new jumped in and went straight to the bottom. He couldn't swim a stroke, . We fished him out and I assigned one of my Eagle Scouts to teach him to swim.

I am glad that you fished him out. (seems the responsbile thing to do for a scout leader)

[SLB]

I am glad that you fished him out. (seems the responsbile thing to do for a scout leader)

Happy to hear that you approve.

Since reading your replies to this thread I must ask: How many kids do you have and how old are they?

[SandyB]

Four, they are now adults. I live on the water - they all learned to swim about same time as walking.

We camped in the Rockies next to rivers so fast I couldnt run on the banks fast enough to head them off, so the only thing to do would be to jump in and swim with the current in order to catch them if they fell in( but I would have done it instead of just watching them drift away)

[Tax-chick]

I don't know whether any of the adults couldn't swim. Nor do we know from the news how long the group tried to rescue the boy before they sent someone for help, nor where the adults were at the time of the accident.

[SandyB]

1. If none of the adults could not swim, they should not be there. They also should not have taken those kids from their parents if they could not, would not, protect them with their own lives.

2. We know they did not try very hard to rescue the kid. If the river was not that bad where they were, they would have not have lost the boy. If the river was really really bad, they would have lost a scout leader as well.

The adults were supposed to be "with the boys"- that is the whole point of having scout leaders. If the adults were not around, they should not have taken the kids from the safety of their homes.

Would you let your young child be taken away to a raging river by someone who cannot swim, who will not be nearby nor will be watching him, and who will not jump in afer your child if he should fall in?

[Tax-chick]

You'd only be happy if an adult died, too. I don't quite get that.

[OldFriend]

Thank you so much for taking the time to care for your Troops. For exposing them to camping, hiking, and other activities.

Recently here in NY a group of Scouts were on a whale watching trip. They were jumping up and down with every wave. They were told numerous times to stop jumping. Over and over again. The importuning was ignored by the boys.

One boy jumped one time too many and fell overboard and was lost at sea.

Every day we lose kids to accidents that could not be avoided, then we have those who die due to their own obstinance.

[Sonar5]

sandyb,

You said:

"Walking 6 miles away from where the boy fell in, isnt going to save him. Why didnt the leader jump in and get him out?

Why would you let your kids go on a trip with a scout leader who wont jump in to get your kid if he falls in?

How many parents here would not jump in to get their child out of the water?"

---

Wow, you must have ESP or something.

If you weren't there, what right do you have to say that someone should have jumped in.

And until you are in the exact same position and have to make a judgment call like this troop did, maybe you shouldn't question what they did.

The first thing you do is go for help. That is what we teach our Scouts. Maybe the river was running fast so that jumping in was not possible to reach the Scout because of the current.

You don't know what transpired there, so maybe you should rephrase your comments.

If a Scout is swimming in water, at least ONE Adult Leader must be certified in Safe Swim Defense and agree to the eight points of safety. They are:

1. Qualified Supervision
2. Physical Fitness
3. Safe Area
4. Lifeguards on Duty
5. Lookout
6. Ability Groups
7. Buddy System
8. Discipline

Now, that applies to Scouts in a swimming area. I doubt this was a swim area.

There is also Safety Afloat for boating, rowing, kayaking, etc...

Barring That, they may not have been required to have someone certified if they were not swimming.

I mean, if a car full of scouts goes over a bridge of water, and the car goes over, does that mean the leader should be safe swim defense certified. Not in my opinion.

Accidents happen, and kids, all kids, not just scouts do stupid things and accidents happen no matter what you tell them.

By your biased analogy, what parent would send their kid on campout that would cause the Scout to fall in? In other words, there is no way to predict an accident such as this.

Was it preventable, yes, but unless you were there, how about some accolades for the Group leader who did the right thing and went for help.

That was the correct policy, and endangering others may not have been the right thing to do in this case, but we won't know unless someone that was there explains further.

Sonar5

[PROTESTBYPROXY]

You both would die and what pretail would happen to your other children? I am the type of parent my child would have been with me and not allowed to be near the river.

[digitalman]

kind of like the other boy in Utah who was lost for so many days when the boys left his ... meaning they took off on him.. don't seem like a safe group of people to send kids off too. mean kids I would say

The boy in Idaho fell, when there were not support ropes, another LDS troop covered up child sexual assult for, gosh... 15 years and 26 (at least) kids assulted.

[RonF]

I followed the story in Utah carefully. What seems to have happened is this:

The Troop was at the climbing tower, just before dinner. Usually at Scout camps like this, from 9:00 AM to Noon and from 2:00 PM to 4:00 PM there are merit badge classes in the various program areas. From 4:00 to 5:00 there is "Free" time. The waterfront is opened up to Free Swim and Free Boating, the rifle range is opened up to Free Shooting, and the climbing tower is opened up to Free Climbing. The areas are still fully staffed; it's just that Scouts can go to whatever program area they want (instead of having to keep to a class schedule) and use the facility on a first-come/first-served basis. Everyone waits their turn. And since the Scouts can all scatter to different program areas, you often don't have an adult at each program area for each Troop.

Apparently, members of the Troop, likely mixed in with Scouts from other Troops, were at the tower (probably at Free Climbing) when the dinner bell rang. There was a steak dinner that night. When you've eaten camp food all week, a steak dinner gets you pretty excited. So all the Scouts there shucked off their harnesses and took off for dinner.

I teach climbing in the BSA. Climbing harnesses are deliberately designed to hold onto you real tight, and if you're not experienced (as this Scout wasn't), they are hard to get off quickly. Apparently this kid took a minute to get his harness off, and by the time he did everyone had taken off. So the Scout tried to find his own way, and got lost.

I do wonder where the staff was. They wouldn't have left the area until after the last Scout did. I figure that the young man left the program area going in the right direction, at which point the staff set their hands to picking up all the harnesses, stowing the ropes, etc., not thinking the Scout would take a bad turn once he left the area. You have to stow all that gear and lock it up so that no one will either steal it (it's expensive) or try to use it without supervision. The Scout came to the first turn and went the wrong way, and got lost. And then dodged rescuers for 3 days because Mommy and Daddy had put the fear of God into him about strangers.

Anyway; the Scouts who ran off broke about 4 of the 12 Scout Laws and also broke the Buddy System rule. "Every man for himself" is not Scout Spirit. That's the way most kids think, though. In fact, it's the way that most kids are brought up. We try to teach them different in Scouting, but it's hard to overcome what they're being taught the rest of the time.

When my Troop is at Summer Camp, I don't expect that all the kids will be under our Troop adults' supervision at all times. Keeping up with a bunch of 12-year olds is a tall order under normal conditions, never mind when you're living outdoors all week and the kids are normally scattered over 100's of acres. Under such conditions, it's not possible for 3 or 4 adults to keep all of 20 or 30 Scouts under their direct supervision at all times. But we do drill into the kids that it's an unusual environment and that the Buddy System will be strictly enforced. And then we DO enforce it. And we also speak to the older Scouts about keeping an eye on the younger ones.

[RonF]

I heard about that NY trip. Awful.

I have two occasions called parents in and told them, "Your son is continually disobedient. It makes him a danger to himself and to others. Either you have to start coming to all Troop events and directly supervise your son - and that means be with your son all the time, not hang out with the other adults - or your son has to leave the Troop."

[OldFriend]

Good for you. Your attitude may save a life.