The source of that population increase is demographically not as strong economically, and you know it.
Of course I know it; the increase is not due to legit enterprise (and employees) ENTERING the state.
crooked put-up Arnold who will eventually bring discredit to the GOP because of his policies (just as Wilson did).
Excuse me? Wilson brought discredit.. exactly HOW.
It was dishonest and virtiolic posters like FareOpinion who led that effort here, relying primarily upon the the bogus claim that Arnold was a fiscal conservative.
Did you ping FairOpinion to this post of yours? I have no idea whether the poster did or did NOT do this.
Here's what I do know. Bill Simon and Tom McClintock -- blessedly fine, intelligent men.
I'd been away from FR for a bit.
I come back on to see Tom McClintock supporters behaving as bitter ideologues in this forum.
Tom McClintock does not write, sound, or act this way. But his FR supporters did. They went personal, calling everyone who wasn't in ideologic chime with them a "rhino". In defense of positive McClintock supporters -- who kept their discourse to the ISSUES, and not going personal -- BRAVO.
Just as some posters in FR love watching political head-ons at DU; there are liberals who enjoyed so greatly, republicans bashing in the heads of other Republicans -- in this forum. Is it such a smart thing to do? No. Not in my experience or opinion. What I saw here in FR gave me a whole newer understanding of "Thou shalt not speak ill of fellow...". I saw it not as an "loyalty" oath; but that from what I saw, it struck me that ideologic speechification on both right and left on the "total Recall" election drove many straight to voting for Arnold. Like there's not enough brawling in CA, already, right? Besides, what else I couldn't understand?
El Rushbo, all talk radio was SUPPORTING McClintock (and Simon). And Arnold won. Folks can draw from this whatever they wish to.
In Europe, the politically dominant are bankers. The "global warming" scam is designed for international bankers to cash in on carbon taxes. They'll use the taxes to hamper production in the industrialized world and invest in the corrupt developing world. They believe that the tax advantages they'll enjoy will insure a fat return.
Brilliantly stated.
me: Lastly, do any of you think Tom McClintock will plan another run for Governor soon?
You: The GOP leadership will do everything in its power to stop that. That's why the fight here between conservatives and CAGOP surrogates. Don't look for it to end soon.
Carry-Okie, I agree with you fully -- it isn't going to stop soon.
I was in a meeting today with some very astute people in my new locale -- discussing politics. What many do seem to grasp? The problems besetting each region are different.
The biggest problem which beset CA long ago, IMHO, began with the MSM only focusing upon "imaging" CA as the land of flakes and "anything" goes. Didn't matter the majority of the state was conservative. Anyone from any OTHER state or ANY OTHER COUNTRY began to giggle and titter whenever the word "California" was mentioned. The MSM created the image of ALL CA, and all Californian's as flaming goofs and liberals. It was a lie. Every single Republican and Conservative politician in CALIFORNIA has had to battle this image. Not just within the US; but abroad. That was the first strike by the liberal MSM, IMHO.
Most people are simply unaware of how conservative the state is. However, the "population" centers remain near water and localized predominantly within SF and LA. Conservative politicians for over 30 years have not only been waging a stand within CA; but have had to fight off this "image". And in so doing, many have attempted a posturing that would coalesce with the "image" in order to co-opt a LIBERAL STEREOTYPE. What has happened in the meantime? Liberal Socialists (CA DEMS) continue to pass laws which make it harder and harder to fight the corruption existent within the CA system; but at the image and vote levels. Voter fraud has been a problem for so long in CA -- who the heck even tries to address it, anymore. The numbers suggest that even were Republicans to harp on this issue; the press would go full court homage to usual blather by the Dems ("Racists, homophobes, starving the children, ad nauseum") rant. That's where the "moderate" position comes into play: someone attempting to balance PRAGMATICALLY what is: AS OPPOSED TO WHAT WE ALL WISHED IT WAS.
CA Repubs tried time and time again to pass BILLS in legislature to combat VOTE FRAUD -- every single time, shot down by the CA Democratic party.
So, now there's history -- there's the part of the CAGOP trying to hold to the old standard of "conservative" operations, and then there's a newer one (Freepers refer to that as "moderate") attempting by another means to rebuild the state -- as in attempting to get the state to a more "conservative" viability as a whole state. The state of CA has been the single largest stronghold of Democrat policies of any state of the union.
And you know what else? Most all our buddies in the other states have laughed at us for years and years -- suggesting that "we" brought this on ourselves. NOw, many of these states citizen's are seeing the very insidious socialist ILLs in their own states. And what are they saying? "save us!" ??? CA conservative have been silenced and censored in a big way for almost 30 years.
The socialists have fleeced CA. They are now hungry to fleece the red states.
I know many people who were very upset by the standoff between McClintock and Arnold supporters. It tore them up. Some took the position that the corruption was so far gone, that voting for McClintock was akin to closing the barn door after the cows had escaped.
Yes, there is a "rent" in the CAGOP. The bitterness is very apparent. And conservative CAGOP members who've been brawling all these years against socialist policies understandably are furious.
I don't pretend to know what the solution is. Except this: Hearing or reading the hate-bashing rhetoric (in re moderates) from the usual socialist suspects in CA, and then witnessing same from within the conservative CAGOP isn't necessarily going to awaken folks. It seems just as fearmongering as the left. Even tho it may be right. I just don't see how it's going to attract more CA GOP voters.
A tax increase, corrupt adoption and application of MTBE, and blind advocacy for large corporate interests at the expense of the GOP small business and land owner base, particularly via the use of regulatory government.
By the time Wilson was done, the State was at least in good fiscal shape, but education was visibly declining and the GOP small business/resource landownership base was being crushed under regulations, while all Lungren could offer was anti-abortion (not popular) and crime protection, while running against a tough-against-crime Davis who promised better treatment on environmental and educational issues.
Did you ping FairOpinion to this post of yours? I have no idea whether the poster did or did NOT do this.
I neglected to do so on that post, but she's been flagged to this thread so many times by me and others that it is inconsequential if you look over the thread.
I come back on to see Tom McClintock supporters behaving as bitter ideologues in this forum.
Well you should have seen the treatment we got during the campaign. It was ugly character assassination without supporting data, in a manner similar to what was done to Simon.
Just as some posters in FR love watching political head-ons at DU; there are liberals who enjoyed so greatly, republicans bashing in the heads of other Republicans -- in this forum. Is it such a smart thing to do? No. Not in my experience or opinion.
Well you should have seen what happened during the Simon campaign. It was gruesome. He may have been inept, but his funding was witheld, he was forced to accept a set of rotten campaign consultants, there was a zero GOTV effort, and there was deliberate sabotage of his base support. He lost by 325,000 votes with 1.6 million Republicans failing to vote.
When Davis showed to be the disaster he promised to be, the conservative base started the recall OVER PARTY OBJECTIONS. When the "leadership" couldn't stop the recall, they highjacked it with Arnold. Don't believe for an instant that this was an unplanned move. Arnold has been under the wing of Wilson campaign advisor, Bob White, for nearly a decade.
Arnold belongs to EXACTLY the same financial interests Davis and Wilson did. I ask that you read this post (it's part of a long and heated discussion) to understand how that could be. If you want more, consider this analysis of Arnold's environmental policy.
The biggest problem which beset CA long ago, IMHO, began with the MSM only focusing upon "imaging" CA as the land of flakes and "anything" goes.
With regard to your political thesis (and without delving into Antonio Gramsci's precedence to the Frankfurt School that infested California with cultural Marxism), consider that the transition you cite, though it began to take shape in public policy with Jerry Brown, was continued under Republican administration. The reason is simple: Republicans have done a rotten job explaining to the public why conservative social principles are necessary to long term economic prosperity and political freedom. As such, "moderates" within the Party have combined with leftists to institute policies that have manufactured more government dependents, ideological leftists, and social misfits. This is yet another reason why Arnold is so destructive to conservative principles.
That's where the "moderate" position comes into play: someone attempting to balance PRAGMATICALLY what is: AS OPPOSED TO WHAT WE ALL WISHED IT WAS.
Here I disagree with you, because of the feed-forward loop to which I referred: "moderate" public policy produces more cultural Marxists. It is no compromise. What conservatives have failed to do is to show how their policies benefit traditional Slave Party constituencies: the urban poor, immigrants, children, etc.
If you freepmail me an email address, I'll send you a seventy page draft booklet I've cooked up to address just that problem.
CA Repubs tried time and time again to pass BILLS in legislature to combat VOTE FRAUD -- every single time, shot down by the CA Democratic party.
And elected "moderates" like Bill Jones who did NOTHING about it when they had the opportunity. As I said, there is a reason you'll understand with that post on the energy crisis.
...there's a newer one (Freepers refer to that as "moderate") attempting by another means to rebuild the state -- as in attempting to get the state to a more "conservative" viability as a whole state.
This is historically incorrect. This battle was going on when Reagan ran against George Christopher. It's nothing new. It was the same when California elected Earl Warren. Look what happened there?
Socialism is good for the wealthy, because they can buy a government with the power to deliver the goods. Conservatives who believe in limited government are incapable of raising those funds.
The socialists have fleeced CA. They are now hungry to fleece the red states.
By undermining them demographically. It won't take much because:
I don't pretend to know what the solution is.
I think I do. It isn't via any attempt to re-unite the GOP. It will come via direct contact from conservatives to voters at large, showing them how the "center" has been high-jacked by the corporate elite, and how conservative policies are better for them. I don't know if you knew, but that is what I have been doing on the environmental front.
As always, Republican Party loyalists are amusing.
Those who are bashing duplicitous politicians like Schwarzenegger and his opportunistic backers aren't doing so to attract or distract anyone from or to the Republican Party.
Their idea, along with the intent of this forum is to promote conservatism, not political parties. Political parties didn't evict Grey Davis, won't lead California back to financial solvency and are not a haven for the majority of the electorate in California.
If the Democrats run a conservative against a liberal Republican (ala Schwarzenegger) in 2006, almost 20% of the registered Republican electorate will vote for the Democrat. This bazaar crossover would be courtesy of the duplicitous nature of Schwarzenegger who while masquerading as a fiscal conservative has turned out to be the biggest spender in the state's history driving the state deeper into debt than all of his predecessors combined. The Republican Party in California would also share the blame since they shut the conservatives out of the partisan, political, primary process in the state.