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Jihad Is Knocking: Another Episode in the War between Christendom and Islam - (sensational piece!)
VICTOR HANSON.COM ^ | JULY 10, 2005 | BRUCE THORNTON

Posted on 07/10/2005 9:19:10 PM PDT by CHARLITE

The slaughter in London is another grisly wake-up call that likely will go as unheeded as earlier ones. Already the standard narrative is being trotted out: evildoers created by what the New York Times predictably called the “root causes of terrorism”: autocracy, or economic stagnation, or Palestinian suffering, or globalization's dislocations, or Western historical sins, or the war in Iraq (the cause will depend on the political prejudices of the pundit) have “hijacked” Islam and distorted its peaceful message.

And now they are using Islam to justify murder in order to further their own ambitions or dysfunctional psychic needs. Given this explanation, so the story goes, we must be careful not to demonize all Muslims and assure them that we respect their religion and culture. The tale is then wrapped up with fierce threats against the terrorists and protestations of admiration for Islam.

Believing this delusion requires that one ignores fourteen centuries of Islamic jihad against the West, a war of conquest and colonization ratified by centuries of Islamic theology and jurisprudence. Indeed, what we call Islamic radicals are in fact Islamic traditionalists; it is the so-called “moderates” — those wanting to compromise Islam so it can coexist with Western ideas such as secular government, separation of church and state, and human rights — who are the radicals and innovators.

The terrorists are simply fulfilling the traditional and orthodox command of their religion to battle the infidels who resist the revelation of Mohammed and the global socio-political order mandated by Islam.

Listen to one of the most respected and influential of Muslim clerics, Sheikh Yousef Al-Qaradhawi, on the legitimacy of jihad:

(Excerpt) Read more at victorhanson.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 2005; appeasement; bombings; brucethornton; conquest; crusades; dhimmitude; historical; islam; jihad; jihadists; july7; koranimals; london; muslim; muslims; religionofpeace; rop; terror; trop; victory; war; waronterror; wot; wwiv
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1 posted on 07/10/2005 9:19:11 PM PDT by CHARLITE
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To: Fred Nerks; Critical Bill; Leapfrog; Stopislamnow; eyespysomething; little jeremiah; Eastbound; ...
Islam ping.

Char :)

2 posted on 07/10/2005 9:20:44 PM PDT by CHARLITE (I propose a co-Clinton team as permanent reps to Pyonyang, w/out possibility of repatriation....)
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To: CHARLITE

bttt


3 posted on 07/10/2005 9:24:44 PM PDT by twntaipan ( I would sooner trust the North Koreans to keep their word than the Democrats --- Ann Coulter)
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To: CHARLITE

Victor Davis Hanson - always a pleasure.


4 posted on 07/10/2005 9:32:36 PM PDT by FierceDraka (The Democratic Party - Aiding and Abetting The Enemies of America Since 1968)
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To: CHARLITE
The “root causes of terrorism” is elite Saudis with more money than brains. They're bored, and on any playing field where they must compete (if you take away the oil money), they lose.

It's why they don't fight fair. They blow up women and children and the unarmed. Even in a fight, they have to cheat. Cheating is the only way they can win. Flea market carpet merchants who want to push their way into the modern world with cash... and kill us if we won't accept them. The war on terror is personal.

5 posted on 07/10/2005 9:32:41 PM PDT by GOPJ
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To: CHARLITE
BINGO:

In any conflict it's a good idea to take seriously the motives the enemy professes and not rationalize or explain them away in terms of your own cultural assumptions.

6 posted on 07/10/2005 9:36:05 PM PDT by GOPJ
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To: CHARLITE; B4Ranch; JasonC; Walkingfeather; Terriergal; xkaydet65; SandRat; Bahbah; Brit_Guy; ...
Already the standard narrative is being trotted out: evildoers created by what the New York Times predictably called the “root causes of terrorism”: autocracy, or economic stagnation, or Palestinian suffering, or globalization's dislocations, or Western historical sins, or the war in Iraq (the cause will depend on the political prejudices of the pundit) have “hijacked” Islam and distorted its peaceful message.

By none other than the G8. Mr. President: wake up. Another $3 billion to the Palestinian Arabs will just fund their murderous schemes. We can be humane about this, but eliminate third world immigration; deport Muslims now; and most of all: seal our borders.

While you're at it, please cease the "Religion of Peace" mantra.

More than anything else: win the war now, not after our lifetimes. Let the war be fought today by us, not our grand children. We can win in a few weeks if we fight like our ancestors did during WWII. If we don't, we may lose not just the hollow, multicultural ideals of WWII's victors, but the freedoms they defended as well. There won't be a west to be "tolerant" if we continue down the path we are today.

7 posted on 07/10/2005 9:36:40 PM PDT by John Filson
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To: twntaipan

We have to get over this notion that there is a such thing as 'moderate Islam'.

If there were such a thing, we'd be unable to turn on the TV without seeing them showering damnation on the terrorists.

Because we don't, and because they don't, the only logical conclusion is that all of Islam is corrupt.

If you doubt me in the least, do you not believe that if the MSM could find ONE moderate Islamist they'd not have him on the air 24/7?


8 posted on 07/10/2005 9:37:14 PM PDT by IncPen (There's nothing that a liberal can't improve using your money...)
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To: CHARLITE

bump


9 posted on 07/10/2005 9:37:56 PM PDT by prognostigaator
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To: CHARLITE; jan in Colorado; Dark Skies; AmericanArchConservative

"They tell us over and over that they are waging jihad in order to establish the global hegemony of Islam, and we tell ourselves that these Muslims don't understand their own religion. Millions and millions of Muslims all over the world cheer for the jihadists and support them materially and psychologically, millions idolize bin Laden and celebrate the murder of Westerners, but we tell ourselves that they are a minority of confused souls whose minds have been addled by poverty or autocracy or anger over the Palestinians."

I UNDERSTAND ISLAM. ISLAM WANTS ME DEAD. ISLAM IS TO ME WHAT HITLER WAS TO THE JEWS. ISLAM IS THE FINAL SOLUTION. IS ANYONE LISTENING?


10 posted on 07/10/2005 9:38:04 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Understand Islam. Understand Evil. Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD link My Page.)
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To: GOPJ
The “root causes of terrorism” is elite Saudis with more money than brains.

The root cause of terrorism is the Koran.

11 posted on 07/10/2005 9:40:30 PM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor

The koran is the receipe book, the pot is in the mosque, the stirrers are the clerics.


12 posted on 07/10/2005 9:43:07 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Understand Islam. Understand Evil. Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD link My Page.)
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To: CHARLITE

Bogus essay. We are not at war with Islam and Muslims, but with terrorists.


13 posted on 07/10/2005 9:43:09 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad

History doesn't support your hypothesis.


14 posted on 07/10/2005 9:46:11 PM PDT by twntaipan ( I would sooner trust the North Koreans to keep their word than the Democrats --- Ann Coulter)
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To: Cultural Jihad

It's interesting that you'd contradict such an accomplished historian as VDH. Your name does have 'Jihad' in it, after all.


15 posted on 07/10/2005 9:48:24 PM PDT by John Filson
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To: John Filson

You can stand with an academic if you want to. I'll stand with our American leadership in a time of war.


16 posted on 07/10/2005 9:49:47 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad

"We are not at war with Islam and Muslims"

But they are at war with us.


17 posted on 07/10/2005 9:52:50 PM PDT by U.H. Conservative
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To: CHARLITE
it is the so-called "moderates" ... who are the radicals and innovators... The terrorists are simply fulfilling the traditional and orthodox command of their religion to battle the infidels who resist the revelation of Mohammed and the global socio-political order mandated by Islam.

Reading VDH is like reading Atlas Shrugged. He observes reality and states what it is, unflinchingly.

18 posted on 07/10/2005 9:54:47 PM PDT by angkor
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To: Cultural Jihad
You can stand with an academic if you want to. I'll stand with our American leadership in a time of war.

What if they're confused, as VDH clearly argues. Are you prepared to support them even if they're wrong? Maybe they need to know that we support a more stringent approach. Are you suggesting that the war shouldn't be fought stringently? It sure sounds like you are. Are you prepared to lose the war because we weren't willing to take it up another level?

19 posted on 07/10/2005 9:54:54 PM PDT by John Filson
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To: U.H. Conservative
Another bogus claim, and an insult to American men and women who are living, fighting, and dying with and for Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan.
20 posted on 07/10/2005 9:56:32 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: angkor

The author of Atlas Shrugged was an ideologue who was unable to view reality because of her ideology.


21 posted on 07/10/2005 9:57:33 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Travis McGee; Squantos; Czar; Marine Inspector

ping..lol


22 posted on 07/10/2005 9:58:23 PM PDT by wardaddy (naming hurricanes after men should be repealed...it's silly)
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To: Cultural Jihad

What about the traitors we've seen who were Muslim in the service, such as the grenade-throwing Sgt. Akbar? In any case, suggesting that it's not worth the risk is not an insult to anyone. It's simply an argument. If you disagree, don't use your phony patriotism to cover up an inept argument. Come out with facts and figures to prove your point.

Anyway, what's up with the 'Jihad' in your handle? It's disgusting in light of recent events. Why don't you change it?


23 posted on 07/10/2005 10:02:34 PM PDT by John Filson
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To: CHARLITE

bookmark


24 posted on 07/10/2005 10:02:52 PM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Islam and Muslims, but with terrorists.

No more arguing with your ridiculous cultural parsings.

Islam has been at continual war against the West for 1400 years.

The only cure for its satanic cancer is repeated butt-kickings and ongoing subjugation.

25 posted on 07/10/2005 10:06:42 PM PDT by angkor
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To: Cultural Jihad
You can stand with an academic if you want to. I'll stand with our American leadership in a time of war.

I've heard it said that President Bush has been reading VDH's writing. I hope he's listening. Perhaps he just doesn't feel he has the support of his nation yet in doing what absolutely must be done.

You never know why leaders in a free republic are doing this or that. We have to speak our mind anyway.

I hope you find this to be a valuable lesson in freedom. One doesn't stay free by kowtowing to anyone.

26 posted on 07/10/2005 10:08:04 PM PDT by John Filson
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To: Cultural Jihad
The author of Atlas Shrugged was an ideologue

Good thing you are not.

27 posted on 07/10/2005 10:08:31 PM PDT by angkor
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To: John Filson; Travis McGee; Squantos; Czar; bourbon; WKB

Ping for number 23 from a fairly new forum member.

Big Bump.

Such an appropriate question...lol....I love it.


28 posted on 07/10/2005 10:09:03 PM PDT by wardaddy (naming hurricanes after men should be repealed...it's silly)
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: CHARLITE

bump


30 posted on 07/10/2005 10:12:31 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Democrats haven't had a new idea since Karl Marx.)
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To: wardaddy; Cultural Jihad
Such an appropriate question...lol.

And we've all asked, of course.

But has it ever been answered?

31 posted on 07/10/2005 10:13:53 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Cultural Jihad
"an insult to American men and women who are living, fighting, and dying with and for Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan."

Actually, to be accurate, it would be an insult to the Muslims our soldiers are fighting with. However ,I understand that when the facts conflict with your worldview, it is an easy response to claim wounded indignation on behalf of our soldiers, even when they aren't insulted.

And you should remember, Muslims once found alliance with America beneficial before. We helped them defeat the Communists (please note that this is not a claim that we trained AQ) and they then set sights on us.
32 posted on 07/10/2005 10:15:57 PM PDT by U.H. Conservative
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To: CHARLITE

How insensitive and accurate


33 posted on 07/10/2005 10:16:30 PM PDT by wildcatf4f3 (whats wrong with a draft?)
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To: U.H. Conservative

I think good Muslims who hear that we've reached the end of our patience will understand. They may be at the limits of their own patience. It's time to stop pretending that we believe that it's TROP though. We are responsible for defending our communities. We can't afford to keep gambling on the concept of TROP.


34 posted on 07/10/2005 10:20:27 PM PDT by John Filson
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To: angkor
The IRA read the Koran?
35 posted on 07/10/2005 10:22:04 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: John Filson
I've heard it said that President Bush has been reading VDH's writing

Hopefully he read this one.

36 posted on 07/10/2005 10:23:52 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Cultural Jihad
The IRA read the Koran?

The Koran doesn't tell the Irish to kill the British, now does it? The Irish could read the Koran and not be a bit inspired to murder anyone. Then again, they might misinterpret Haddiths that call for the killing of Jews and accuse the Brits of being like Jews. So maybe we should be wary of Irish who suddenly take anything but a sterile interest in the Koran, don't you think?

37 posted on 07/10/2005 10:26:36 PM PDT by John Filson
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To: CHARLITE

bttt


38 posted on 07/10/2005 10:27:07 PM PDT by Eagles6 (Dig deeper, more ammo.)
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To: Mr. Mojo

not likely.


39 posted on 07/10/2005 10:27:35 PM PDT by wardaddy (naming hurricanes after men should be repealed...it's silly)
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To: John Filson
No. We can't afford to undercut American leadership in a time of war. After all, no one plays "Hail to the Chief" when you walk into a room, and probably for good reason.
40 posted on 07/10/2005 10:29:20 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Mr. Mojo
Or is it the rest of us, who in fear of being slurred as "racists" or "nativists" often keep silent — just when candor and honesty on all sides are needed... --by VDH in Illegal immigration is a moral issue

Exactly — we're being asked to be silent when speaking up is a matter of self-defense. It would be immoral not to speak up.

41 posted on 07/10/2005 10:30:25 PM PDT by John Filson
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To: Cultural Jihad
After all, no one plays "Hail to the Chief" when you walk into a room, and probably for good reason.

He's not a king, he's our duly elected president. I have a right to disagree with a specific policy. I don't see you making any sort of argument here except that you don't want me to speak my mind. All you can say is that "you're wrong" and "you're against the president."

That's no argument, and it's not democratic. You're trying to silence dissent. Is that how you want to be known, given that your handle includes the term 'Jihad' in it?

42 posted on 07/10/2005 10:32:49 PM PDT by John Filson
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To: John Filson
I totally agree. If Muslims would reform and join say, the 18th or 19th century, it would go a long way.

However, given the fact that Islam has been a conquering faith since its inception, I do not know if such a change is possible.

They took the Mideast. They are retaking Europe. Why mess with success?
43 posted on 07/10/2005 10:32:59 PM PDT by U.H. Conservative
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To: Mr. Mojo; Cultural Jihad

I would like to see this question answered as well. Please do enlighten the infidels...


44 posted on 07/10/2005 10:35:30 PM PDT by streetpreacher (If at the end of the day, 100% of both sides are not angry with me, I've failed.)
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To: CHARLITE

It's way past time that people took note that either the members of the MSM haven't bothered to read a copy of the koran or they are lying to us about islam.


45 posted on 07/10/2005 10:36:34 PM PDT by fella ("Revenge is an act of passion; vengeance of justice...")
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To: John Filson

When you are wrong I will tell you. It's entirely up to you if you want to continue being wrong.


46 posted on 07/10/2005 10:36:54 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: U.H. Conservative
I do not know if such a change is possible.

After we've proven yet again that conquering faiths can be conquered, and that we're not tied down by our ideals when it comes to protecting our children, the good Muslims may come around and begin to use force in reforming the religion.

I'm not holding my breath anymore. The 700 casualties in London last week convinced me to give up waiting. If they want to ally with us in Iraq, fight on brothers. But here in America, and in the British Isles? They should be put on notice: you're not welcome here anymore. Look what's happened to France: they're now at 25% Muslims. You can't argue with those statistics. They spell a disaster.

Meanwhile, I think 'rattlesnake' when I think Muslim.

47 posted on 07/10/2005 10:37:25 PM PDT by John Filson
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To: Cultural Jihad
When you are wrong I will tell you. It's entirely up to you if you want to continue being wrong.

Is that part of your 'Jihad' -- to tell people they're wrong without showing why, or offering an alternative?

Show me an alternative to the 700 casualties last week. Make it acceptable to every one of their families.

48 posted on 07/10/2005 10:38:26 PM PDT by John Filson
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To: John Filson

One wonders what would have happened if FDR had referred to "moderate Nazis" or called fascism the "politics of peace?"


49 posted on 07/10/2005 10:39:21 PM PDT by U.H. Conservative
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To: U.H. Conservative
The conundrum is that we know for a fact that there are good, ecumenical Muslims. Therefore we must be humane about any such reforms we make. They are human beings. But we just can't invite more in, and the fundamentalists ought to be invited to leave.
50 posted on 07/10/2005 10:41:21 PM PDT by John Filson
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