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To: RedRover
This shirt is being sold in a far left publication that routinely portrays Bush as a vampire, as a Nazi, etc. The maker of the shirt is an activist for illegal immigrants. People who will be buying and wearing this shirt are being defiant of the searches. They are the same people who make New York and America less safe by being pro-illegal, anti-gun, anti-profiling.

Well, that may be true, but by all accounts the guy that discovered aspirin was a real asshole. This doesn't make everyone who takes aspirin an asshole.

Supposed someone else made the shirt ... would it be okay to wear it then?

Not consenting to something is not "defiance". Especially when they say you can walk away. That is simply ... not consenting. "Defiance" would be struggling to take your bag away from police after they declared that their dog smelled explosives and they had reasonable suspicion to look in it. Defiance would be slapping the cop in the face. Defiance is not refusing consent. Consent, by it's nature, is voluntary - and one cannot be defiant for refusing it.

The neighborhood kid asked if I would give him $10 to mow my lawn. I did not consent. He didn't mow my lawn. Did I "defy" him? No. I simply declined to have it done. And in return, I didn't get my lawn mowed. At this point, it sounds like if you don't consent to inspetion in the subway, you don't get to enter that particular turnstile. You have to walk to the other entrance, or maybe to the next stop. But that's not "defience". It's making a choice.

Everyone is free to consent or not consent. They may check the bag without your consent, but not granting your consent is not defiance. It is doing what you think is right. And we should all do what we think is right. And not abiding by a law that violates the Bill of Rights is actually an OBLIGATION that all patriotic Americans have. Yes, I realize that it is impractical, and "not the way things work" ... but it's presicely our passivity to the deterioration of the Consitution that has gotten us to this point. Now since we've made 4/5th of the journey to totalitarianism people just say "we might as well go the rest of the way", but I don't begrudge the small number of people who try to preserve what the military is fighting for. Freedom.

550 posted on 07/22/2005 4:16:48 PM PDT by Stu Cohen (Press '1' for English)
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To: Stu Cohen
Everyone is free to consent or not consent. They may check the bag without your consent, but not granting your consent is not defiance. It is doing what you think is right. And we should all do what we think is right. And not abiding by a law that violates the Bill of Rights is actually an OBLIGATION that all patriotic Americans have. Yes, I realize that it is impractical, and "not the way things work" ... but it's presicely our passivity to the deterioration of the Consitution that has gotten us to this point. Now since we've made 4/5th of the journey to totalitarianism people just say "we might as well go the rest of the way", but I don't begrudge the small number of people who try to preserve what the military is fighting for. Freedom.

Excellent Post! This has been an excellent thread.

563 posted on 07/22/2005 5:01:30 PM PDT by zeugma (Democrats and muslims are varelse...)
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