Posted on 07/29/2005 5:37:23 AM PDT by RobFromGa
Gee, thanks Doc. You should really put your research findings in JAMA.
I had the disease of smoking for 23 years. I've been disease free now for 7.
Of course I've a touch of the fat disease in my middle, too.
"It will amaze you what you might conclude."
Indeed, it is amazing what some have already. Blaming any and every thing EXCEPT personal choice and concluding the "victim" has no culpability will never help.
Especially recovering alcoholics. They do not run from their current or past responsibilities. They do not make excuses to allow for mitigation.
The idea that alcoholism is a disease is not mutually exclusive with personal choice. If you are allergic to peanuts and choose to eat them anyway, you are responsiblie for the outcome.
Al-Anon taught you to accept this drunk's list of excuses? That is terrible! I couldn't think of anything more unhelpful than to teach a family to believe these blame shifting excuses.
What a perfect set up for a drunk to "relapse", having a family that believes the whole drunk excuse book, hook line and sinker.
You apparently believe that AA and Alanon are more of a problem than a help. It seems that your belief is so potent that it has caused you to be antagonistic toward AA and Alanon.
Why is that?
Have you directly assisted in helping an alcoholic (not just some one who drinks) to recover from the illness?
At times you seem to have been open minded, saying things to the effect, "If it works, then fine." However, the most forceful elements of your comments seems to hold that AA and Alanon are destructive. Or at least that the stated principles of these programs relating to the character of the illness are destructive.
With all due respect, lets agree to disagree. It's easier to be a drunk than to be sober. In some of my earlier responses, I was basically told to leave or that I was ignorant. What these "alcoholics" fail to understand is that they don't remember 3/4 or more of what they say or do while drunk... So i'm labled "ignorant" or in need of "help". It's much harder for the drunks family than it is for the drunk because we remember everything.
Then when they are sober and you tell them what they did, they deny it.
I do not dwell on the alcoholic. But when this "disease" thing comes up, I get quite mad. It would have done me no good to attend any of the alanon meetings because I would have been thrown out for telling them that they are FOS.
IMO, Alanon, alateen (or whatever) teaches lies. Drunks are told their disease is not their fault, etc etc. And their families are brain washed into believing the same.
Im glad it worked for you. Its alot easier for you to deal with drunks because you don't believe its their fault and if that works for you, then fine.
Ill stick to reality.
Everyone that wants to should try AA. It may work for them. For most it does not. AA and the similar medical treatment industry are not the only answers out there. There is a way to put a person's drinking problem away quickly and for good. The first step is to stop blaming others and take personal responsibility for their own choices. It can be done because millions have done it. It's difficult to help someone in a few paragraphs but it's important for people to know that if AA doesn't work there are other options than returning to the bottle.
I know this post wasn't directed at me, but I believe that AA and all "12 steps" programs are bullshit. You know, the reminds me. Penn and Teller did a special on Showtime about this very subject. I don't agree with them about much, but I thought they were spot-on with this one.
I know scores of "diagnosed alcoholics" I used to hang out with in college than can no socially drink with no problem whatsoever. Even though they have a casino-full of AA "chips". Heck, I even *cough*went*cough* went to a couple of meetings myself. Docs told me I was an alcoholic. Went to AA (where I could barely breathe due to the cloud of smoke). There, I had to declare myself "powerless" of alcohol and a bunch of other stuff. Problem is, I wasn't. I just really, really liked to drink at that point in my life. Now I can throw back a brew or 10, or abstain for years altogether. Not a problem. The "12 sizes fits all" aporach to these programs is nonesense, IMHO.
Does anyone remember that term the coined a few years ago ... "weekend alcoholics". Um, yeah, most addicts can wait five days for a 2 day fix". I mean, whatever they think will fly with the sheep, they'll give wings and push off a cliff.
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