SEEK: Seek clumps of shrubs or trees of uniform height. Seek ditches, trenches or the low ground. Seek a low, crouching position with feet together with hands on ears to minimize acoujstic shock from thunder.
Posted on 07/29/2005 6:17:21 PM PDT by Pharmboy
FRESNO, Calif. (AP) - Lightning struck a group of Boy Scouts taking shelter from a storm, killing the troop leader and leaving a 13-year-old boy brain-dead in the latest tragedy to befall the organization this week, authorities and the teen's grandfather said. Six others were injured when the lightning bolt made a direct strike on a tarp the Scouts had set up in a meadow in Sequoia National Park on Thursday.
Ryan Collins, 13, was being kept on a ventilator so that his organs could be donated, the boy's grandfather said Friday. Collins was listed in critical condition at the University Medical Center in Fresno, but his family had given up hope.
"He would never recover or anything else," grandfather Bill Collins said.
The lightning strike came just days after four Scout leaders were electrocuted while putting up a tent at the National Scout Jamboree in Virginia. Dozens of Scouts were sickened by the stifling heat two days later at the jamboree.
At least one of the injured in the lightning strike was kept alive only because the troop managed to administer CPR for an hour, park ranger Alex Picavet said. It is not known which injured person that was.
"That's amazing," Picavet said. "It's very difficult. It's probably because of their Boy Scout training."
The assistant scoutmaster, Steve McCullagh, 29, was killed instantly when the bolt struck, the Tulare County coroner's office said.
"He didn't even make it off the mountain," said Sue Collins, the boy's mother, crying along with her husband and younger son at the hospital. "It's horrible. It's a fluke."
One troop member was being kept for observation at the Fresno hospital, and all the others were treated and released from another hospital, authorities said.
The scout group from St. Helena, which included five adults and seven teenage scouts, had been camping for a week as part of a nine-day backcountry hike along the John Muir Trail.
A lightning bolt made a direct strike on one of two tarps they had set up in a meadow. Two teenagers ran 25 minutes to a ranger station after the strike, and five helicopters flew in to evacuate the group.
"They did the best they could in the situation they were in," Picavet said. "They didn't have metal poles, and stayed away from high points."
Collins said his grandson was a scout for more than three years and loved the outdoors.
"He was a fabulous boy. He was doing what he loved to do," Collins said. "It's just a tremendous shock to everybody."
It's been a bad week for the boy scouts.
How could they hit by the lightening with just a tarp? Is there metal attached?
This has got to have an effect on their recruiting.
Dang! Sounds like the Zotamatic has been miscallibrated. What a week.
Very sorry to hear this. I respect the folks who volunteer their time to help kids get a good start. This is terrible.
SAD!!!!
None of the stories mentioned metal One would think that during a lightening storm they would move away from anything metal. But what were they putting up the tarp with? You ask an excellent question.
"How could they hit by the lightening with just a tarp? Is there metal attached?"
You don't need metal, just be the highest point in the area.
"You don't need metal, just be the highest point in the area."
Especially if it was wet.
Pine trees don't have metal in them.
What do you mean? What kind of message?
And what would that be? Be careful in thunderstorms? What the heck are you implying?
Where do you think lightning comes from?
It said they put them up in a meadow. They were probably the highest exposed point.
A couple months ago a NJ boy scout fell off a boat on a scouting trip and drowned in the ocean. I remember a few years back when two or three scouts got washed off a bridge on a river in flood, and drowned.
And we just signed up our son for Cub Scouts. Mother's nerves here.
Mrs VS
What kind of message? What do you mean? Do you know?
It's been a bad summer for the Scouts.
Lightning is an electrostatic breakdown event. It does not come from God.
Doe Eyes is going to tell us what the message was from God about the tragedy for this scouts.....lets wait....
They camped in a meadow, offering a high profile path for electrical charge flow.
Don't know where you got that from, but it wasn't from me.
SEEK: Seek clumps of shrubs or trees of uniform height. Seek ditches, trenches or the low ground. Seek a low, crouching position with feet together with hands on ears to minimize acoujstic shock from thunder.
We camped in a valley in the Sierra Nevadas, and there was a lighting strike somewhere in the valley every 30 seconds for a two hour period. We pitched the tent where the boulders around us were at least twice the height of the tent.
I have noticed when we attended some girls' soccer games, a pretty new activity for us, it was thundering and lightning off in the distance, raining a little. I had heard that even if the lightning is in the distance, you get inside anyway. They kept the game going as if it were just a very serious matter to keep it going, and would not call the game until a bolt of lightning struck a light pole on the field! This was a little girls' soccer game for goodness sake. These school sports have taken on a life of their own, and adults who are supposed to know better, treat them like they are life and death (which they may well become for reasons other than they imagine); guess the coach's job and the school administration is the name of the game at the end of the day. A lot more people than one would think seem to like risk taking.
Last year a young man from our church was killed at the beach by a lightning bolt from nowhere - no thunderstorm at all. But when you see the storm - for goodness' sake get off the field. I think in NJ the sports teams are somewhat more cautious after a few instances of golfers and soccer players being struck.
Mrs VS
Pls try to stay focused:
You said:
To: Pharmboy
God must be sending a message.
10 posted on 07/29/2005 9:32:59 PM EDT by Doe Eyes
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I said:
What kind of message?
You answered with ANOTHER QUESTION, :
Where do you think lightning comes from?
hence the dodge by you not to answer a simple question
So what are you saying Doe Eyes?
What was the message, please enlighten us....
Mrs. VS,
I just checked some stats. There are 988,000 Boy Scouts and 885,000 Cub Scouts. Your son just became part of a huge, incredible organization.
However, with numbers like that, sadly it's inevitable that some tragedy will befall a small number of them, sometimes unavoidably unless parents decide that ultimate safety (padded walls and a couch) is better than living a life of fun, adventure and a little bit of risk.
Although I was a Cub Scout as a child, I did not continue. Now that I'm a dad, I have two boys in Scouting this year, Webelo and Tiger. I'm a leader of our Pack and am enjoying every minute. Scouting is an incredible organization with an enviable safety record.
That said, don't worry and have fun with your son.
So what message is God sending when lightning strikes and kills a 13 year old boy? Are you going to enlighten us? Or are you just full of cr#p?
I wonder if restrictions on camp sites from environmental concerns (too close to a stream, etc.) prompted them to pitch where it was unsafe.
Where does lightning come from?
I knew somebody would say that!
LOL
Number of Lightning Deaths in the United States, 1990-2003
Don't most tarps have grommets? There may be enough metal on them to attract lightening if conditions are right, I guess.
I'm sorry for this boy and his family. I pray for them.
Rocks act like dielectrics that lower the field. Conductive point like objects like trees, people and poles, raise the field. Cracks in the rocks filled with dirt and tree roots are conductive paths.
I don't have a clue, so I would be very appreciative if you would tell me!!!
Not too proud of what you said are you?
You can't justify it, you can only dodge it now...we know
You can't bring yourself to post what you really meant to say can you?
I'll just repeat it for everyone to see the way you think
News Story:
Lightning Kills Boy Scout Leader, Boyscout braindead, Injures Seven Others During Camping Trip
To: Pharmboy
God must be sending a message.
10 posted on 07/29/2005 9:32:59 PM EDT by Doe Eyes
I knew somebody would say that!
Embarressing and Sad isn't it?
Where does lightning come from?
Answer my question about What the MESSAGE is....
then we'll get to yours
The Boy Scout group was in a meadow surrounded by trees when the lightning storm became heavy. They split into two groups and set up two tarps more than 50 feet apart to seek refuge from the storm, Picavet said. Then, a lightning strike made a direct hit on one tarp.
"Everyone under that tarp was affected in some degree," Picavet said.
Using a map of the park, two teenage boys made a 25-minute run to the nearest ranger station and hurried back with the on-duty ranger, Picavet said.
God not invent the laws of nature. God, being real, depends on them for His existence.
"Let it be known that electrostatic breakdown was NOT invented by mankind...the event is indeed an action of God....and for good reasons...
The event is not an action of God, it happens purely, because of the local conditions. Those conditions are not set up by God. In this case it's just weather. There's nothing more to it.
Given that God pretty much controls earthly events, he wanted to bring these Boy Scouts to heaven, for reasons I cannot, and do not, need to understand.
Creationists and Intelligent Design types usually complain that evolution is based on materialistic understandings of how the natural world works.
One can't have it both ways--either G-d intervenes directly in every event or there are materialistic explanations. Perhaps this was an indication of supernatural power, but more likely it has a material explanation based on science and some bad luck and randomness. If not, then it must be due to an ID's supernatural's design or pre-destination.
Good for you!!!
That's alot more honest than what you said originally...... "God's sending a message" which had a more ominuous and punishing ring to it...but then you knew that.
It's static electricity. To be simple and short just as you wipe electrons free from the rug when you walk and they collect on your shoe and conduct everywhere from your fingertips to your head, the wind does the same. The charge collects in the atmosphere. WInds are greater in storms and the water droplets act as dielectrics collecting and concentrating charges.
When charges are separated, an electric field results. The more charge, or the smaller the distance of separation, the higher the field. Air and moist air can only support a certain field before the air breaks down into a plasma(separate charges) and conducts. The conduction is the lighning bolt. The measure of electric field strength is in volts/unit length.
I read online that more people die each year in Ga. from lightning than from snake bites. My son wanted to go outside today when it was storming BAD. Lots of thunder and lightning and pouring rain. I printed out the story about the scouts, and the two who died in Ga. after lightning strike. Scary.
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