Bone grips on my son's[now my] ported Champion.
Posted on 07/31/2005 10:05:59 PM PDT by DuckFan4ever
No Mishandling, Negligence Involved
SALEM, Ore. -- Investigators say they now know how a Marion County deputy was accidentally shot in the leg Wednesday night by his own gun. Steven Cooper was on duty, getting out of his unmarked squad car when his Glock handgun discharged inside his holster.
The bullet went through his lower right leg, causing "substantial" injuries to major blood vessels and arteries, as well as to his tibia. The bullet was lodged in the bone.
An investigation determined that the firing was not the result of mishandling of the handgun or other form of negligence by Cooper.
The deputy was wearing a jacket with drawstrings and toggles to adjust the waistband. It is believed that one of the plastic toggles worked its way into the gun holster and became entangled in the trigger guard.
When Cooper extended his arm to push open the car door, his coat became taut and the waistband pulled up. The drawstring tightened enough to pull the trigger.
Cooper, a 10-year veteran of the sheriff's office, is assigned to a bicycle patrol officer and is a member of the Marion County Interagency SWAT Team.
Don't they use the safety?
What safety?
I would personally prefer a big bore revolver.
I also think policemen should be allowed to have a weapon they choose personally, not a single, standard department issued weapon for all officers...
As one wit said... Having the safety on the trigger is like having a brake on top of the accelerator.
yea, what about the safety?
Sounds like a goof to me.
Glocks don't have a standard safety, I can't really explain it. look here. http://www.glock.com/_safe_action_.htm
defective?
A Glock is more like carrying a .45 Colt model 1911, hammer back on a chambered round, with the safety off.
Both the Glock and the 1911 with the safety off are "perfectly safe," so long as nothing touches the trigger.
But as long as humans are humans, they will make mistakes....
That's why John Browning put a safety on side of the 1911, and not on top of the trigger.....
Then again, Glocks are automatics, and the T38SP is a revolver.
Someone tell me, are Glocks the most prominent weapon in use by LEOs or not? I'm curious because just about all of the accidental mifirings I read about are Glocks.
Right....
When carrying the 1911...in unhappy places, we ALWAYS racked to charge the chamber, thumb safety UP to the ENGAGED position and hammer pulled to full cock position, in THAT ORDER!
One need only pull the piece - bring the thumb down to a natural position and start firing..8 man stopping rounds.
It was as natural and safe as brushing your teeth...
Never witnessed or heard of any Marine having an accidental discharge.
I've never bought any Semi-Autos that were NOT based on the 1911 scheme....with Thumb and Grip safety.....too damned old to get fail/safe reliable and comfortable with a new platform....
Purely personal opinion and biased at that - but I think KIMBER produces the best affordable line of 1911s on the market..
Semper Fi
If you think that's bad, check out an S&W 990L.
It is a Walther P99 QA derivative, with a very tight trigger, no safety (ok), and no decocker. It is fun to shoot, but I wouldn't dare carry it. It struck me as really dangerous. Compared to it, the Glock is a paragon of safety, with the trigger safety and a longer pull.
I'm not a fan of Glock pistols for that reason, and the fact that there is no external hammer.
When holstering a semi-auto, I like to press my thumb on the back of the hammer "just in case" the trigger catches on a piece of clothing or the holster.
Even though the DA/SA trigger on Sigs/H&Ks, etc... is tougher to master than something like a Glock (which has the same trigger pull for each round fired), the heavy DA pull on the first round does sort of function like a safety.
And if you need to make a precision shot, it's simply a matter of cocking the hammer to get to a nice 3-4 pound trigger.
I won't go into the reasons I'll never own nor shoot another Glock pistol but one of the reasons I'm turned off is that it doesn't have a double strike capability and the fact that they KB quite a bit.
There are much better and safer handguns out on the market... In this case, I don't know if having a different brand of gun would have helped or not... the deputy was obviously less than observant and probably shouldn't be armed in the first place.
Mike
I used to hate Glocks ... till I bought one.
I've bought all used and, coincidentally, all had had the triggers modified.
They have got to have the sweetest triggers ever. Comparable to a slicked-up S&W trigger but not nearly as long.
And if anyone gets the willys from carrying one because of no mechanical safety, one can buy a "trigger block" that's shaped to fit in behind the trigger when carrying and flicked out by a finger when the gun is drawn.
I still can't picture how this article is describing this AD happened.
I was up too late last night...
Semper Fi
A bunch of our bang list friends have responded to my call for info on .45 handguns for concealed carry. A couple of people I respect suggested a Glock 23 in .40 but this is exactly the situation I'm worried about with a Glock.
Obviously thousands of people carry these things every day without any incidents, but it's still something I'm thinking about in the back of my mind.
You're the only person who didn't respond to my FR-mail, so what do you think?
PS, my dad likes your book, good luck with the next one. I know that's what you've been busy with!
regards!
By the way.... I forgot to congratulate you on a "good Catch"...
I'll try to quit posting after 2am and a few "adult beverages"..
Apparently -- at my age, I can't function like a young man anymore...
Semper Fi
"A Glock is more like carrying a .45 Colt model 1911, hammer back on a chambered round, with the safety off."
Actually its less safe than quoted above because the 1911 still has the grip safety.
You might want to check out the new Taurus 1911. Bells, whistles, and less than $700. I love my various .45 ACPs and the Kimber is a sweetheart.
Good point, I forgot the grip safety.
This is my major complaint about Glocks. No positive safety, and the trigger pull is NOT like a DA revolver, it's exactly like a SA semi-auto, which it is.
How many pounds of pressure are required to fire a standard Glock?
How man pounds of pressure are required to fire a typical revolver, DA?
How many pounds of pressure are required to fire a typical 1911?
Get back to me when you have the answers.
Simple answer.
If you cannot understand that a Glock is a "Big Boy" gun have your wife carry it. Then go get yourself a gun with so many safeties that it won't fire unless the Governor is there with a special key.
I am a "Big Boy".
I don't need the Governor or a safety. I have been trained and have trained others.
Glocks are for serious grown-ups. Other than that need not apply.
If you so desperately need a safety then maybe you don't need a handgun.
Pure BS. No retention holster or any holster that I know of except maybe an Uncle Mike has room for a "toggle" to work its way into it.
A toggles main driving force is gravity. A toggle doesn't work its way anywhere.
These are almost as bad as the wal-mart threads.
The A75 Astra works the same way. Decocker, no safety, trigger is like a double action for the first shot.
Sounds like the holster design didn't adequately protect the trigger against this type of occurrence.
Bingo!
I have yet to figure out why anyone would have to pin the grip safety. If you take the safety out of the pistol, all you have to do is break off the tap which stops the trigger. Without the tab, the trigger can't be blocked.
Unless, you don't like the movement when the grip safety toggles up and down.
Most people don't shoot the 1911 with the high hold, thumb on the thumb safety. Unfortunately, when the high hold is used, the palm of the hand "cups" the grip safety and the safety isn't pressed down. The solution is going back to the original flat mainspring housing.
Eaker, possessions aren't the measure of a man. Just because they pluck the money down on something, doesn't make them better or worse than the next guy. There have been a lot of wealthy people who died alone.
Huh?
How many pounds of pressure are required to fire a standard Glock?
Trigger pull for the Glock is 5.5 pounds. However, I found an article that said Glock measures from the tip of the trigger. When they put the scale in the middle of the trigger in the article it measured 8 pounds.
How man pounds of pressure are required to fire a typical revolver, DA? Haven't found any data on that yet, but since most of the trigger scales only go up to 12 pounds, so I'd say not more then that. My best guess? Around 10 pounds.
How many pounds of pressure are required to fire a typical 1911?
Around 4.5 to 5 pounds.
How man pounds of pressure are required to fire a typical revolver, DA?
Haven't found any data on that yet, but since most of the trigger scales only go up to 12 pounds, so I'd say not more then that. My best guess? Around 10 pounds.
The Thumb Safety is a modified smoothed aftermarket version that sits flush with the frame.
From the same article that measured the Glock trigger pull, I read it a little more closely and it stated that typical DA revolver pull is 12 to 14 pounds.
Does that sound about right?
Here's a link to the article.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_50/ai_n6209982
The cop either:
A. Holstered his weapon with the coat caught in between the holster and weapon, thus his error, or:
B. Holstered his weapon with his finger on the trigger, again, his error.
No jacket zipper or "toggle" can work it's way into a quality holster, or for that matter, a cheap holster that covers the trigger.
And before Glocks were king of the hill for police weapons, the leader of the bunch for ND's was the 1911. I've seen several holes in a gunshop from cops unholstering their 1911's. Nothing new there.
I state again, if you don't pay attention, you will get bit.
Exactly.
That's the way ADs during holstering always happen, isn't it?
Bone grips on my son's[now my] ported Champion.
The five-pound connector mated with the standard trigger spring is what comes out of the box when a private citizen buys most models of Glocks. It is said to have an average pull of 5.5 pounds. In measuring this combo on my G22, Dave got four pounds, 1.5 ounces when the gauge was hooked to the toe of the trigger, and six pounds on the nose when he attached it to the center of the trigger.
A supposed 5.5 pound trigger, which measured from the toe actually was just over 4 pounds in this instance, and from the center, 6 pounds.
Note that the pull measured on this particular gun was a pound and a half lower then the factory spec. Interesting eh?
"we" weren't part of this discussion.....
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