Convergent Evolution Found in Poison Frogs

LiveScience ^ | 8/9/05 | Bjorn Carey

[atlaw]

"It's the desire for God's word to be wrong that drives evolunacy."

First, using "evolunacy" is a poor way to make a point. It signals educational deprivation.

Second, there are a great many Christians who accept the theory of evolution as the best current explanation for biological diversity. So your basic premise is fatally flawed.

I would suggest that you adopt a broader reading list and expand your circle of acquaintances.

[editor-surveyor]

How about the stuff that has poured out in the last 15 years?

[Right Wing Professor]

How about the stuff that has poured out in the last 15 years?

How about citing a reference to substantiate your claims?

[editor-surveyor]

Keep running!

[Right Wing Professor]

If you can't cite evidence to back up your claim, that any reasonable person will assume you made it up.

Or, more succinctly, put up or shut up.

[Elsie]

I drove from Indianapolis to Blanding, UT.




What route did I follow?

How long did it take?


Did I have problems on the trip?


Can you answer these questions from the observed data??

[Elsie]

Tobacco doesn't really have very much.

But given time, chance and lung tissue; cancer evolves.

--ET

[Elsie]

....there are a great many Christians who accept the theory of evolution as the best current explanation for biological diversity.

 

 

Unfortunately, most Christians 'believe' Evolution because they do NOT know what their Bible says.  If, as they say, they 'believe' the words of Jesus and then of the New Testement writers, they have to decide what the following verses mean:

 

Romans 5:12-21
 12.  Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
 13.  for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
 14.  Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
 15.  But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
 16.  Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
 17.  For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
 18.  Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.
 19.  For just as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
 20.  The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,
 21.  so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

 

 

If there were  no one man, that means SIN did NOT enter the World thru him.

 

If Adam was NOT the one man, that means SPIRITUAL DEATH did not come thru him.

 

If SIN did NOT enter the World thru the one man, that means Jesus does not save from SIN.

 

 

Are we to believe that the one man is symbolic?  Does that mean Jesus is symbolic as well?

 

 

The Theory of Evolution states that there WAS no one man, but a wide population that managed to inherit that last mutated gene that makes MEN different from APES.

 

 

 

 

1 Timothy 2:13

  For Adam was formed first, then Eve.   Was Paul WRONG about this???

 

 

[Southack]

"Convergent Evolution Found in Poison Frogs"

The more honest title should have been: "Convergent Evolution HYPOTHESIZED For Poison Frogs"

[News Junkie]

You asked: Is it not worth considering...

Consider all you want, just don't call it proof. To present the story of the frogs as a done deal - as a "discovered" example of covergent evolution - just because you can imagine that it happened that way is faith, not science.

Don't pretend that it is, is all I'm saying.

[News Junkie]

Thanks for jumping in with me. I was taking a beating for a while!

[cookcounty]

Ah.......I see the "convergence" as in "similar", but where's the "evolution"? Oh that's right, as usual it's stipulated, then said to be true, based on the stipulation.

[LifeOrGoods?]

What does "in His own image" mean?

The ability to love, hate, have emotions. The ability to make moral and logical judgments, free will, responsibility.

[skr]

Consider all you want, just don't call it proof. To present the story of the frogs as a done deal - as a "discovered" example of covergent evolution - just because you can imagine that it happened that way is faith, not science.

Don't pretend that it is, is all I'm saying.

I believe what I put forth is a hypothesis that has nothing to do with evolution, just a simple migration of two species which may have had a micro-evolutionary development afterwards as to color and size but that's all. Is there some sort of misunderstanding of what I speculated? I don't believe we disagree from what I've read of your posts.

[editor-surveyor]

"....there are a great many Christians who accept the theory of evolution as the best current explanation for biological diversity."

No actually, there are only a handful who profess to be christian and believe the lie of evolution, and most of them are the scoffers who doubt the authority, and inerrancy of God's word. If you accept the word, then you have to accept that it says that all his creation reproduces after it's own kind, not in a continuing pagent of change.

In the U.S. less than 19% of the people believe that evolution has ever produced a new species, and that includes all the unbelievers. That is likely due to the 'Missouri' effect: people believe what they can see, and for all the huffing, puffing and posturing that goes on in favor of evolution, not one piece of solid physical evidence has ever been made available for inspection.

"Unfortunately, most Christians 'believe' Evolution because they do NOT know what their Bible says..."

Or is it because a few weak christians just wish to be accepted in some peer group?

[Elsie]

NIV Genesis 1:26-27
 26.  Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
 27.  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

 

NIV Genesis 5:1-8

 1.  This is the written account of Adam's line.   When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God.
 2.  He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man. "
 3.  When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.
 4.  After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.
 5.  Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died.
 6.  When Seth had lived 105 years, he became the father  of Enosh.
 7.  And after he became the father of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and had other sons and daughters.
 8.  Altogether, Seth lived 912 years, and then he died.

 

 

 

NIV Genesis 6:1-2

 1.  When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,
 2.  the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

[Elsie]

I was taking a beating for a while!

Not hardly: mere words - hot air.

---

No.........

THIS is a beating!

[Elsie]

NIV 1 Peter 2:19-21
 19.  For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God.
 20.  But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.
 21.  To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

 

 

NIV Acts 5:40-41
 40.  His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
 41.  The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name.

 

NIV Acts 9:15-16
 15.  But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel.
 16.  I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."

 

NIV Romans 5:1-4
 1.  Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
 2.  through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we  rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
 3.  Not only so, but we  also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;
 4.  perseverance, character; and character, hope.

 

NIV Romans 8:17-18
 17.  Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
 18.  I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.

 

NIV 2 Corinthians 1:3-11
 3.  Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,
 4.  who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God.
 5.  For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows.
 6.  If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer.
 7.  And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort.
 8.  We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life.
 9.  Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead.
 10.  He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us,
 11.  as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our  behalf for the gracious favor granted us in answer to the prayers of many.

 

NIV Philippians 1:27-30
 27.  Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel
 28.  without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved--and that by God.
 29.  For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him,
 30.  since you are going through the same struggle you saw I had, and now hear that I still have.

 

NIV Philippians 3:10-11
 10.  I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
 11.  and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

 

NIV 1 Thessalonians 2:2
   We had previously suffered and been insulted in Philippi, as you know, but with the help of our God we dared to tell you his gospel in spite of strong opposition.

 

NIV 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
 14.  For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews,
 15.  who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men
 16.  in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

 

NIV 1 Thessalonians 5:9
 9.  For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

NIV 2 Thessalonians 1:5-6
 5.  All this is evidence that God's judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.
 6.  God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you

 

NIV Hebrews 10:32-33
 32.  Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering.
 33.  Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated.

 

NIV James 5:10
   Brothers, as an example of patience in the face of suffering, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord.

 

NIV 1 Peter 4:12-16
 12.  Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you.
 13.  But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.
 14.  If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.
 15.  If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler.
 16.  However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.

 

NIV 1 Peter 4:17-19
 17.  For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
 18.  And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
 19.  So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

[Right Wing Professor]

(Crickets chirping)

[dartuser]

Dr. Austin