Convergent Evolution Found in Poison Frogs

LiveScience ^ | 8/9/05 | Bjorn Carey

[Right Wing Professor]

Powers?

[dartuser]

Dr. Steve Austin

not to be confused with "a man barely alive, 'we can rebuild him, we can make him better than he was ... better ... stronger ... faster.'"

[Right Wing Professor]

I found this from Dr. Steve Austin. It's a report of 40K/40Ar ages of dacite from Mt. St. Helens. In it, he finds radiogenic ages in the range of 0.38 - 2.8 Ma. Editor-Surveyor claimed that the amout of argon present in newly formed rock in Hawaii and Washington is about the same as in rocks dated from 350 million to 500 million years, so either this isn't the paper he was referring to, or he told a falsehood.

The half life of ⁴⁰K is 1.28 billion years. Using it to determine the age of rocks less than a million years old, in which less than one ⁴⁰K atom in a thousand has decayed, is like using a GPS unit to measure the length of a cockroach. In other words, if you want to be able to claim you've found a six foot cockroach and measured its length scientifically, you can do so, but only the gullible will be taken in.

But I will give Austin this. Most creationists are too lazy to collect their own data, and tendentiously misinterpret other people's. Austin tendentiously misinterprets his own!

[News Junkie]

Sorry, skr. I didn't read enough to see who is agreeing with who. I was just sticking to my little point about the main article, which was conjecture extrapolted as proof.

I can't believe this thread is still growing.

But I did like the frog pictures. Cool.

[dartuser]

If you are up on the K-Ar method, and I think you are, then you could not have missed the point of the work.

[Right Wing Professor]

If you are up on the K-Ar method, and I think you are, then you could not have missed the point of the work.

I didn't miss the point of the work. He applied to newly formed rock a method that's used to date rock that's hundreds of millions to billions of years old. He found dates between a few hundred thousand years and a few million years old, with anyone who knew the method and knew anything about science would say are indistinguishable from zero. He then tried to pretend they are not indistinguishable from zero.

As I said, a great analogy is using a GPS unit to measure the length of a cockroach. You put the device at the head of the cockroach, and measure the position. You put it at the other end, and measure the position. You subtract the two. You get a distance, which will probably be a few feet. Does this mean you have a giant cockroach? Does it mean GPS doesn't work? No, it means a GPS unit measures positions to an accuracy of a few feet, and therefore is not a real useful way of meauring the length of something that's a couple of inches long.

Likewise, potassium argon dating is a good way of measuring the age of billion year old rock. If you apply it to new rock, you'll get an age which is determined entirely by the random and systematic errors of the method, which are a few million years.

'Scientific creationists' are either stupid, or liars, or both. My own opinion is the latter; Austin surely can't be stupid enough to believe what he claims here.

[dartuser]

What is the assumption on the concentration of daughter element in the K-Ar method ?

Hint: Go to the nearest university library and check out Dhalrimple's (sp?) book on K-Ar dating.

[Right Wing Professor]

Hint: Go to the nearest university library and check out Dhalrimple's (sp?) book on K-Ar dating.

That would be G. Brent Dalrymple ?. The guy who wrote "Radiometric dating does work! Some examples and a critique of a failed creationist strategy"?

LOL!

From the link: Thus the large majority of historic lava flows that have been studied either give correct ages, as expected, or have quantities of excess radiogenic 40Ar that would be insignificant in all but the youngest rocks. The 40Ar/39Ar technique, which is now used instead of K-Ar methods for most studies, has the capability of automatically detecting, and in many instances correcting for, the presence of excess 40Ar, should it be present.

[longshadow]

That would be G. Brent Dalrymple ?. The guy who wrote "Radiometric dating does work! Some examples and a critique of a failed creationist strategy"?

Game, set, and match to RWP.

[dartuser]

AH ... so now its the Ar-Ar method that is the best ... ... let me catch up ...

[dartuser]

So now its the Ar-Ar method that is preferred ...

(huge sigh) ... OK ... let me catch up ...

[SunkenCiv]

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