Man killed by Sunrise police in drug raid had 2 ounces of marijuana

http://www.newsday.com/ ^ | August 10, 2005 | Brian Haas & Kevin Smith

[darkangel82]

That is what I meant to say.

[grey_whiskers]

I agree that the FBI's handling of the Waco tragedy was a disaster and many questions still remain. I also feel compassion for the innocent men women and children who died as a result of Janet Reno's actions. The only part of that incident which I am advocating is the requirement to serve the warrants and arrest DK. The courts are where the sorting out occurs. Unfortunately, the whole incident was rife with ineptitude. None the less, laws must be enforced and the serving of the warrants was required by law. I personally would have chosen a much more safe and benign way of doing that.

If I read the thread correctly, this is essentially the point that the people protesting the "2 oz of pot" guy's death were saying--he could've been alive and awaiting lawful, constitutional trial if the cops had started things differently: he didn't pick up a gun on his own and say he was "gonna gun down some pigs, today, man, and power to the people."

Double edged sword: if he was a dealer, and armed, he had the potential to take out some cops. But if he was a dealer, he was probl'y scared of a home invasion by other dealers. Best solution: don't do illegal narcotics, they are not the same as religious faith.

[7thOF7th]

"Double edged sword: if he was a dealer, and armed, he had the potential to take out some cops. But if he was a dealer, he was probl'y scared of a home invasion by other dealers. Best solution: don't do illegal narcotics, they are not the same as religious faith."

Sir,
I was beginning to think no one else in this forum would speak up and state this. I have been trying to communicate it to many who are completely blinded by their libertarian ideology. You sir have my respect and appreciation. You are obviously a "Summa Cum Laude" graduate of the school of common sense. God bless and take care!

[7thOF7th]

I have looked over my entries on this thread and realized I need to double check my spelling and grammar much better if I expect to communicate. I'm not making excuses but I have done a poor job of proofing before sending. In the future I will do better.

[dcwusmc]

Best solution: NO MORE NO-KNOCK RAIDS. Then you can be sure no cops will be killed by people rightfully defending their own homes. Whatever your feelings on drug-relegalization, if you want to stay alive on the job, best solution is to start honoring and enforcing the fourth amendment once again, along with the whole bill of rights. Then we won't have to have these discussions anymore.

You see, too many times you people get the wrong homes to bust into and you are putting ME and MY family at risk with your ninja BS. So my policy is simple... if ANYONE comes into my home during the night, it will be MY rounds that go downrange IMMEDIATELY. And I spent enough time on the range to be SURE I will do more than fan the air by my targets. If it's some sort of home invasion by UNofficial criminals, fine. If it's OFFICIAL criminals invading my home, oh, well! Ya shoulda stood in bed or found HONEST work. (If you get the feeling I have no respect for door-kicking goons, well, you win the kewpie doll. For your military service, thanks. However, your current occupation does tend to negate any bravery and professionalism you showed during your military time. Not to mention the respect that could have been yours had you followed an honest profession after your service.)

[7thOF7th]

"You see, too many times you people get the wrong homes"

Come on dcusmc, I understand your dissatisfaction with the use of No-Knock warrants but lets be factual here. Of all the search warrants executed in this country over the course of a given year are you saying that the number of them which were in error is inordinate to the number which were correct. This is just not accurate. I think I understand that you believe they are all wrong but that is you saying that and not our Laws. I don't understand how you find solace in clinging to these ideals, it seams like it would just add bitterness to a man. Sure, espouse outrage when injustice occurs but injustice occurs when Laws are broken. Tragic mistakes can also be an injustice but without malice or incompetence it is only a mistake.

If you are a law abiding citizen and the Police make a mistake and enters your home why on Earth would you attempt to fire on them. The situation would resolve itself if you comply and you would also be accorded recourse. No one would be injured. You say you would fire on the Police, it seems to me you are the one who is making the mistake. You are escalating a situation and putting your family in jeopardy with this course of action. I just don't get your logic.

[Unicorn]

No more no knock raids.

I'll buy that big time.

[middie]

I understand. The history of Sunrise is an example of the way a suburban city in a populous county should not be governed, corruption, incompetence, police brutality and public policy ignorance have been rampant for years upon years.

[tacticalogic]

If you are a law abiding citizen and the Police make a mistake and enters your home why on Earth would you attempt to fire on them.

Because in a no-knock dynamic entry raid, the behavior of the Police will be indistinguishable from a criminal home invasion.

[7thOF7th]

You should know that officers are required by Law to identify themselves both audibly and visually immediately upon entering the premises. To mistake their actions for that of home invaders although possible, is not likely. I can assure you that if a special tactics team enters your home (lets say mistakenly) you will know it is the real deal just from the manner, uniform, equipment and numbers of officers who execute these warrants. I say this because SOP's for these require overwhelming force which is well coordinated. Officers will be coming from every entrance and cover will be established by perimeter sharpshooters.

If persons enter your home carrying weapons without CLEARLY identifying themselves, you have every right in the World to defend yourself.

[Nov3]

You should know that officers are required by Law to identify themselves both audibly and visually immediately upon entering the premises.

In Memphis it is SOP for the gang bangers to identify themselve when they do a home invasion - as Police. Anyone kicking in a law abiding citizens door by mistake deserves to have their casket urinated on.

These dynamic entries should be used for exceptional circumstances where other mean won't work. Someone's ass should be on the line if the wrong house is hit.

[7thOF7th]

I understand your concerns, Memphis is a city which is struggling with crime. My Father lives in Germantown and he has told me about these home invaders. I will say this if they don't identify themselves in a manner which is clear and unambiguous, defend your home. Remember, the likelihood of the Police making a "mistake" is minuscule. I will assure you that it will be difficult to confuse them for criminals.

[drlevy88]

I will say this if they don't identify themselves in a manner which is clear and unambiguous,

Which to you is just to holler "Police!" Which the invaders do.

[drlevy88]

Remember, the likelihood of the Police making a "mistake" is minuscule.

Therefore if you know you're innocent and someone dressed like Village People barge in and holler "Police!" you have a right to shoot because it's probably not real police because real police would very unlikely make such a mistake.

[tacticalogic]

Anyone can yell the word "Police", and inside a narrow corridor or entryway the homeowner cannot see past the first couple of people. You rationalize that if a person is engaged in criminal activity, they should be expecting the police. The flip side is, if they aren't then they don't have any reason to believe the people breaking their door down are anything but criminals.

In a country that has the right to keep and bear arms, and people do so in defense of their homes and families breaking someones door down in the middle of the night has a very real potential of getting someone shot, regardless of who they are. You cannot guarantee that only the police will employ such tactics, but still expect the homeowner to behave as if you can. You expect perfect compliance, knowing full well you cannot promise perfect enforcement in return.

[Nov3]

I will assure you that it will be difficult to confuse them for criminals.

Woken from a sound sleep at four in the morning anyone is easy to confuse as may have been the case in this article.

I will say this if they don't identify themselves in a manner which is clear and unambiguous, defend your home.

The home invaders CLEARLY identify themselves as Police.

The upside is that the police are not executing many no knocks in my neighborhood! As to your Dad, Hickory Hood is getting close to Germantown but I haven't heard of any home invasions there yet.

[Lurker 50001]

"As for questionable evidence, tell it to the doctors who removed 50 cal. rounds from three dead ATF agents."

50BMG round? Lodged in the ATF agents bodies?

Lurker