Posted on 08/14/2005 1:25:44 PM PDT by adam_az
Edited on 08/14/2005 1:28:27 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]
Make ever mullah a "martyr"! Send them to "Allah"!
It is amazing how many, even Christians, do not want to face this fact. Here we are, thank you for sharing. We are not suppose to be anxious now, that is where our faith comes in.
Something very strong..
they way the arab media are running this, this is going to be a big shot in the arm for the groups like, Hamas, etc.
They are taking full credit for this. Recruiting for human bombs will probably go up...
The young muslim guys now see that if they blow themselves up on a bus, then the Israelis really do run away....
and their "martyr" pictures get splashed on arab tv, and are paraded through the streets like religious icons.
Maybe it is militarilly sound, but it is a political disaster, They have just fed the monster of Islamic terrorism.
The monster should be slain, and not fed!
And your own military analysis of the situation is.....
What?
(Sound of crickets chirping)
An FR "In Forum" search shows that your input into this thread has been Zero. Nada. Zilch
I'm a retired U.S. Naval Officer and I have been studying military history for the past 30 years.
If you want to debate me in regards to military history, put aside your childish insults and show me what you think you know.
I'm not prediction doom & gloom to the USA, but I do know that the things we see in the natural is a reflection of what is happening in the unseen supernatural world.
Make no bones about it - this marks a historical precedent for Israel and a very dark day indeed.
Question: Does anyone here who believes that the land was given to the Jews by God think that God will not show his displeasure at this pullout?
Neither will the world tolerate this.
With the U.S. as Israel's ally, the rest of the World won't have a choice.
Russia had strategic depth. Israel does not.
Russia could fight a prolonged attritional war. Israel can not.
Russia did not have the UN breathing down it's neck.
Russia was facing only Napoleon, not a billion Jihad supporting Muslims.
Israel has no equivalent of the Russian Winter to draw it's foe into.
How's that for a start?
I reluctantly agree with you here.
Fox News Alert: confrontations going down between settlers and Israeli police. Lots of shoving on the video feed, yelling. They're back to the regular programming again.
I dont know the current tensions between the Israelies and their government but does anyone think if the gaza evacuation ends in many dead, is there a possibility of a Israelie revolution ousting sharon?
"Israel is trading multiple small and extremely vulnerable salients with no military value for positions behind the Israeli Wall impregnable to an overland attack"
But not to missiles or mortars being shot over it, as happens regularly.
"and is also making it possible to turn Gaza into a free-fire zone for Israeli air power if the need arises."
The Israeli communities are not adjacent to Arab communities, so this point is moot.
http://israelnn.com/news.php3?id=87724
DF Closes Jewish Gaza; Arabs Shell Two Towns
05:29 Aug 15, '05 / 10 Av 5765
Starting Sunday night at midnight, the IDF and Israeli Police began enforcing the prohibition of entry and presence of Israeli citizens in the areas due to be evacuated under PM Sharon's Gaza Plan.
Four hours later at approximately 4:10 AM, Arabs in Khan Unis, under the control of Abu Mazen, fired mortar shells at Jewish homes in two neighboring towns in Gaza – Neve Dekalim and Gadid. At the time of the filing of this report, no injuries or damage were reported.
The IDF spokesman's office confirmed that no military response followed the shelling of the Jewish towns.
On Monday and Tuesday, August 15-16, 2005 joint IDF and Israeli Police forces will demand from residents and civilians that are still present in the areas of the Gaza Strip and Northern West Bank due to be evacuated to leave the area. Officers will enter the Jewish towns and will hand deliver expulsion notices to the residents or paste them to the doors of the homes.
Anticipating the entry of the IDF to deliver the orders, hundreds of Gush Katif supporters blockaded the entry to Neve Dekalim from midnight. When the mortar shells hit the town, municipal leaders called upon all the protestors to enter shelters.
Residents of the Jewish town of Kfar Darom in Gush Katif posted notices on their doors today that read:
"Soldier/Police Officer – HALT. If you proceed to knock on the door, you will become a direct accomplice of the most terrible crime in the history of the Jewish People. We will not agree to be expelled from our homes. We will not budge from here ever."
The new IDF prohibitions of entry imposed at midnight also apply to residents of the towns due to be evacuated in Gush Katif (Gaza) and northern Samaria.
Sunday night at midnight, all entry permits to Jewish Gaza that were issued in the past, both permanent and temporary, expired. Entry will be allowed on an individual basis for those whose presence is essential for the implementation of the Prime Minister's Disengagement Plan. Specifically, entry will be allowed for forcibly removing the Jewish residents from their homes, for the security of the area and for emergency and rescue services.
DF Troops Fail to Distribute Order in Sa-Nur
09:06 Aug 15, '05 / 10 Av 5765
(IsraelNN.com) IDF troops attempting to distribute expulsion orders among the residents of the northern Samaria town of Sa-Nur have told their commanders that they are unable to complete the operation.
Demonstrations by residents and their supporters at the entrance to the town successfully held back the soldiers.
Troops Handing Out Orders in Nisanit
09:21 Aug 15, '05 / 10 Av 5765
(IsraelNN.com) IDF troops and police have entered the northern Gaza community of Nisanit and have begun distributing orders calling on the town’s Jewish residents to leave the place at ounce or be forcibly expelled.
The expulsion order was signed by head of the IDF Southern Command, Gen. Dan Harel.
Mayor of Gush Katif: Orders Can’t be Handed Out
09:21 Aug 15, '05 / 10 Av 5765
(IsraelNN.com) The mayor of Gush Katif, Avner Shimoni, said that police and IDF troops have been unable to enter the Jewish communities of Gaza to hand out expulsion orders.
The communities have locked their gates in order to prevent troops from entering their towns.
Livnat to Oppose Next Wave of Expulsions
08:59 Aug 15, '05 / 10 Av 5765
(IsraelNN.com) Education Minister Limor Livnat said she would vote against the next wave of expulsion orders set to be approved by the government today. The next wave of orders is expected to include the Jewish communities of northern Samaria.
Livnat’s no vote is not expected to be accompanied by her resignation from the government. As education minister, Livnat has expressed her desire to ensure that the school year starts on time and the Dovrat report is implemented. Once these issues move off her agenda, her resignation would become more likely, according to political analysts.
Residents of Gadid and Gan-Or Pray at Towns’ Gates
08:32 Aug 15, '05 / 10 Av 5765
(IsraelNN.com) Residents of the Gush Katif Towns of Gadid and Gan Or are praying at the towns’ gates. Residents intend to be at the gates when IDF troops start handing out expulsion orders.
IDF Troops Reach Gan-Or and Gadid
09:38 Aug 15, '05 / 10 Av 5765
(IsraelNN.com) About 150 IDF troops have reached the gates of Gan-Or and Gadid, two of the 21 communities in Gaza scheduled to be evacuated and destroyed in the coming days.
Col. Agi Yehezkel, head of the expulsion force, was shouted at by local residents as he approached the town’s gates. “Where were you when they were shooting at us,” shouted one of the residents. “Where’s your morality? We called on you when the Arabs fired mortars at us, but you refused to return fire, not even once.”
IMO, yes.
JPOST headlines:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1123986011440&p=1078397702269
Aug. 15, 2005 3:31
Report: French journalist kidnapped in Gaza
By JPOST.COM STAFF
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A journalist working for the French public television station "France 3" was reportedly kidnapped early Monday morning in the Gaza Strip, just as the IDF was shutting down the Kissufim Crossing.
The man, a sound technician reportedly of Algerian origin, was in the Gaza Strip to cover Israel's withdrawal from the region.
According to eyewitnesses, three masked and armed Palestinians ambushed him outside of his Gaza hotel, and then forced him at gunpoint into a waiting vehicle, Israel Radio reported.
"France 3" had reportedly contacted Palestinian security forces to request that they operate to rescue of the hostage. The television station also appealed to the French government to take action to secure the man's rescue.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1123986010222
Settlers hamper 'Helping Hand' eviction operation
By JERUSALEM POST CORRESPONDENTS
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Hundreds of settlers amassed right inside the entrance to Neveh Dekalim, barring soldiers and police from entering the Gush Katif settlement to distribute eviction orders as the disengagement plan was put into action.
The settlers were singing, praying, and clapping their hands in protest, as army and police filled the streets.
Caterpillar tractors and buses of soldiers waited to enter the community before finally giving up and moving on to the next settlement.
Around 150 members of security forces, some astride horses, organized themselves in two lines across from the gates. The group was comprised predominantly of police officers.
The IDF said it would open the gates by force is settlers did not let them in.
IDF District Commander Colonel Agai Yehezkel approached the settlers blocking the entrance to Gadid and asked them to move.
Hundreds of people were also blocking the police special forces that were trying to enter the settlement.
Yehezkel first wanted to utilize an opportunity to talk to the protestors, saying he was not looking for trouble.
The security forces were preparing to break through the gates, though, if settlers refused to open them and let the 50-strong squad of special forces into the community.
In the last hour before the IDF was to begin distributing eviction orders, residents of Neveh Dekalim and Gadid held morning prayers outside of the gates of the two Gush Katif settlements.
"It is one way of dealing with the disaster ahead," a female resident of Neveh Dekalim said, after walking with another women to the gate that separates the settlement from neighboring Gadid.
Outside of the main gate of Neveh Dekalim, a mixed group of residents and "reinforcements" had amassed a blockade of barbed wire, tires, dumpsters and trash. There, as in Gadid, settlers were preventing buses full of journalists from entering the settlements.
A convoy of 50 IDF vehicles, including ambulances, buses, and jeeps, entered the Kissufim crossing early Monday morning, carrying soldiers and police officers to begin Monday morning's operation "Helping Hand to Our Brothers. " (GAG)
(snip)
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1123986011037&p=1078397702269
Jews gather at UN for prayers on Gaza withdrawal
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
NEW YORK
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Hours before Jewish settlements were to be dismantled Sunday in the Gaza Strip, American Jews gathered in front of the United Nations to pray for friends abandoning their homes.
"As emotionally tied in as we are to the imminent destruction of the Jewish community in Gaza, this is a day when we cry out to God rather than scream protest slogans," said Glenn Richter, an organizer of the service at the Isaiah Peace Wall facing the world body's Manhattan building.
Several hundred people, many wearing prayer shawls and skull caps, stood before a Hebrew scroll, chanting as they awaited the start of the withdrawal.
The dismantlement of Jewish communities coincides with "the saddest day in Jewish history," a date marking the destruction of Jewish temples in ancient Jerusalem, Richter said. Those who stood swaying in prayer under the Peace Wall had been fasting since Saturday as part of the annual commemoration of the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C. and of the Second Temple in 70 A.D.
"Many people see a connection between the removal of the Jews from Gaza and the destruction of the holy temples and the ancient kingdoms of Israel," said Richter, a member of the New York-based Amcha-Coalition for Jewish Concerns, one of several activist organizations represented at the service.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1123986011247&p=1078397702269
Aug. 15, 2005 2:43 | Updated Aug. 15, 2005 3:00
IDF won't hand-deliver evictions to 5 settlements
By MARGOT DUDKEVICH AND ASSOCIATED PRESS
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The IDF canceled in part Operation "Lend a Hand" to hand out eviction notices.
After the five Gaza settlements of Kfar Darom, Netzarim, Atzmona, Katif and Dugit objected to the entry of the soldiers, the IDF agreed to send the eviction notices by mail.
A military spokeswoman said the army would respect the wishes of the settlers. Settlers at several of the settlements planned to block the entrances to prevent soldiers from entering with the notices.
Notices were to be distributed to the other 15 Gaza settlements Monday morning as planned, said the spokeswoman, Maj. Sharon Feingold.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1123986011024
Aug. 15, 2005 1:33 | Updated Aug. 15, 2005 9:17
IDF ready to evacuate Ganim, Kadim
By DAVID RUDGE
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The IDF is ready to evacuate the northern Samaria communities of Ganim and Kadim from Wednesday if the government approves such a move, The Jerusalem Post learned on Sunday.
Military sources noted that only a handful of families remained in the two communities, and according to assessments only one or two would still be there after Wednesday.
The IDF imposed a closure from Sunday midnight on Homesh and Sa-Nur, the two other settlements in the area slated for evacuation.
A closure order was imposed on Ganim and Kadim last week.
According to the sources, the army on Monday is to begin distributing leaflets to the remaining residents of the four communities telling them they should leave their homes within 48 hours.
The leaflets are to be given to security officers and civic leaders of the communities to be distributed among residents.
There have been reports of dozens of anti-pullout activists entering Homesh and Sa-Nur in the past few weeks, giving rise to assessments of strong opposition to evacuation of those communities.
The pullout in northern Samaria had been slated to begin after the disengagement from the Gaza Strip has been completed.
(This is in SAMARIA - aka the West bank - not Gaza!)
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1123986010824
Aug. 15, 2005 0:46 | Updated Aug. 15, 2005 8:06
NY assemblyman sneaks into Gaza
By TOVAH LAZAROFF
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New York Assemblyman Dov Hikind (D-48th District) is among the many infiltrators to have snuck into Gaza through the IDF roadblocks.
"It was very easy to get in," Hikind told The Jerusalem Post as he stood outside the Neveh Dekalim synagogue on Saturday night.
This is his fifth trip to the area since January. He said he came to stand in solidarity with the residents in their most difficult hour.
"In no way will I interfere with what the police and the army will do," said Hikind, adding that he came to bear witness to the "human tragedy."
Another New Yorker who felt the same was Helen Freedman, executive director of Americans for a Safe Israel. She said she came down Friday on an Egged bus, with just a small handbag.
When soldiers asked for her identification, she gave them her New York City press card. Like Hikind, she too has made many trips to the area.
In the winter, her zeal to show her true colors led to her brief detention at Ben-Gurion Airport when she arrived sporting a bright orange T-shirt with the words "not one inch." This time around she was more circumspect and refrained from any such outward displays.
She spent her first two hours in Gaza on the phone, just telling people, "I made it."
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1123986010769
JPost.com » Disengagement » News » Article
Aug. 15, 2005 0:15
897 of Gaza's 1,486 families agree to go
By TOVAH LAZAROFF
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Gaza settlers David Gueta and his wife, Kochava, made their last trip into Gush Katif Sunday night in advance of the closure.
Although they have moved to the government's resettlement project in Nitzan, they returned just to be present Monday when the soldiers arrive to hand out the eviction orders.
"Once we are given the order, we will hold a closing ceremony and then we will leave as a community," said Gueta, "but not a moment before then," he added.
The home, a small stucco one, that originally stood in the Sinai town of Yamit before it was evacuated in 1982, is now empty for the second time.
All that remains of his 25 years in Gan Or are a dining-room table and a few beds.
His family is among 1,127 out of 1,716 families in Gaza and four communities in northern Samaria who have agreed to voluntarily leave by August 17.
Of those, 897 out of the 1,486 families in Gaza have agreed to go, leaving only 589 families who will face the soldiers when they arrive to pull them out of their homes.
A few weeks ago it was possible to drive through most of the Gaza Strip without seeing many outwards signs of disengagement. But on Sunday, it was hard to miss the signs of destruction and change in many settlements.
Most of the homes in the small settlement of Pe'at Sadeh are empty shells.
Along the road, not far away, Palestinian shepherds herded goats and sheep in the sand where hothouses once stood.
In Bedolah, where slightly more than half the 33 families were in the process of leaving, the streets were filled with boxes and moving vans.
One young woman, concerned that the street scenes were giving the wrong impression, pointed out that in her home everything was as it has always been.
Many of the residents had painted orange graffiti on their walls and even the trees in the center of the settlement were painted orange.
In Atzmona, where none of the families are expected to leave voluntarily, the Harosh family's children were busy playing in their new home, finished less than two months ago. On the table was a photo album of the celebration they had dedicating the new home.
Devorah Cohen, who came from Efrat to be with her sister and their family in Atzmona when the soldiers arrive said, "No one is leaving here."
(snip)
That is very concrete thinking.
Every military situation has its own unique set of variables.
The arguments I have gotten are along the lines that any retreat in the face of an enemy, under any circumstances, is a sign of weakness.
Is that your position?
Should Israel, like Napoleon, march deeper and deeper into its own Tar Baby?
Can you describe to me how wasting Israeli military strength protecting militarily useless settlements inside Gaza (thereby fighting the war of attrition that you say Israel cannot afford) instead of establishing a defense line behind the Israeli Wall increases Israel's strategic depth?
Can you describe to me how the Gaza Palestinians, surrounded by the Israeli Navy to the West, the Israeli Wall to the North and East and with a Southern flank that can be cut off at will by an Israeli armored thrust are any less trapped than was Napoleon's Grand Armee?
Can you describe to me how one billion jihadis are going to cross the desert and breach the Israeli Wall in the face of Israeli and U.S. air power, not to mention Israel's nuclear capabilities?
The only bleeding that Israel is experiencing right now is at the hands of the Palestinians that Israel, up to now, has insisted on living side by side with.
That situation is about to change and the Palestinian rabid dogs, at least in Gaza, are being locked out of Israel's house and Israel is telling the Israelis who insist on living in the dog house that they have to get out of there and leave the rabid dog alone.
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