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Red Flag (China) flying over LinuxWorld Expo
InfoWorld ^ | 15 Aug 05 | Neil McAllister

Posted on 08/15/2005 3:47:15 PM PDT by Golden Eagle

China stakes its claim to become the next IT outsourcing superpower, with an emphasis on open source

It may have been the worst conference presentation I've ever seen. Behind it, however, was one of the most compelling trends in the IT industry today.

In a conference room tucked away on the second floor of San Francisco's Moscone West convention center, a scant handful of reporters had gathered at LinuxWorld Expo 2005 to hear a sales pitch. But this wasn't your everyday vendor briefing. Doing the selling was a consortium of Chinese software companies called the Beijing Software Industry Productivity Center (BSIPC), there to promote Beijing as not merely the capital of China but also "Asia's Linux Capital."

The emergence of China as a global economic power has been one of the key trends of this century. Relaxed economic and regulatory conditions have opened U.S. markets to Chinese companies in ways previously unthinkable. In manufacturing, China is already an unstoppable juggernaut. Little wonder, then, that Chinese companies would now be looking for ways to provide goods and services higher up the value chain.

Sure enough, the BSIPC delegation opened its press conference with a 15-minute video presentation that did its earnest best to paint Beijing as Bangalore North and then some. Skyscrapers leapt to the clouds, models strutted the runways, neon lights blazed above the bustle of cars and people as they moved the wheels of industry. And, of course, computers were everywhere. Chinese teens, we were told, now enjoy Internet cafés "more than almost any other entertainment."

Looking past the razzle-dazzle, however, the BSIPC offered some provocative figures. Beijing is now home to some 150,000 software development facilities, serving about 5,500 software and IT service industry companies. In 2004, software development was a $6.4 billion industry in Beijing, the result of an annual growth of roughly 30 percent since the year 2000. Exports currently account for $227 million of that figure.

Could China really overtake more established nations like India and Russia in the IT and software development outsourcing market? It's possible, yet doing business in Asia carries with it a unique set of concerns for U.S. companies.

The BSIPC made a valiant effort to gloss over the West's unease at Asia's poor track record for IP (intellectual property) protection. "In Beijing, copyright registration takes just one week," the video presentation offered cheerfully. "And it's free!" But the BSIPC actually had an answer to the IP question that was far more compelling than streamlined bureaucracy. It wasn't just selling outsourcing. It was selling open source.

When the software is free and open to begin with, IP concerns move to the background. After all, why not open source? The areas of an enterprise most ripe for outsourcing are those areas that are nondifferentiating or provide no competitive advantage. Not coincidentally, those same areas are prime candidates for collaborative software development, as open source advocates like Bruce Perens will explain.

But there was another concern in evidence at the press conference, and that was the one I mentioned earlier: This may have been the worst conference presentation I've ever seen. The reason, unfortunately, had everything to do with the language barrier.

Following the video, BSIPC director Hu Qinghua delivered his opening comments to glassy-eyed reporters through a translator. Of the BSIPC members who spoke, only the representative from Sun Wah Linux seemed fluent enough in English to engage the audience; others just read prepared speeches from paper. And the provided press materials were as slipshod as they were slick and colorful, full of the typos and malapropisms that fans of imported video games adore.

Nothing against Mandarin, mind you; it's a beautiful language. But one lesson companies engaged in offshore outsourcing learn early is that establishing clear communications channels throughout the development process is paramount. Fail there, and costs and failure rates start climbing immediately. Compared with countries such as India or the Philippines, where English fluency among software developers is virtually universal, outsourcing to China seems like a tough sale.

Though the BSIPC delegation was certainly eager, I couldn't help but come away with the feeling that Beijing as the new Bangalore was an idea whose time had not yet come. Still, though the Chinese IT outsourcing superpower hasn't arrived yet and there are still hurdles to overcome, it's on its way. If the BSIPC successfully communicated one message at LinuxWorld, it's that in IT and software development -- as in manufacturing before them -- China will not be ignored.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; linux; microsoft; opensource; windows
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While the Chinese rampantly pirate our intellectual property for their own profit, instead of standing up for our rights and expecting them to pay for using our software technology, the growing "open source" crowd would rather just give it all away to them, for free. No wonder the Chinese love it.
1 posted on 08/15/2005 3:47:19 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle

China, the 900LB Gorilla standing in every corner. Wonder if they offer everyday low prices on their services.


2 posted on 08/15/2005 3:49:58 PM PDT by devane617
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To: Golden Eagle
"While the Chinese rampantly pirate our intellectual property for their own profit, instead of standing up for our rights and expecting them to pay for using our software technology, the growing "open source" crowd would rather just give it all away to them, for free. No wonder the Chinese love it."

Quoted in communist red for a microsoft fanboy like you:

Microsoft Gives Chinese Government Access to Windows Source Code

Microsoft signed an agreement on source code recording with Chinese government on January 28, according to which the government and appointed units could, under Microsoft authorization, to review the source code of the Windows operating system. Presiding over the signing ceremony was Wang Chunzheng, deputy director of the State Development Planning Commission.

3 posted on 08/15/2005 3:55:25 PM PDT by flashbunny (Always remember to bring a towel!)
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To: Golden Eagle

I think there's some confusion here. "Open source" refers to distribution, yes, but it also refers to the development process. People contribute their time voluntarily to projects of their own choosing. The open source "industry" mostly consists of distributions (packages) and services, not development. So, I'm not sure what this Chinese consortium is talking about when it's selling software developers for open source. Maybe they mean customization and maintenance work - which requires intense communication (somthing not suited to outsourcing). Maybe something else is going on, but this article just seems to be glossing over it with buzzwords.


4 posted on 08/15/2005 3:56:28 PM PDT by billybudd
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To: flashbunny

Wow, think you could have found a bigger font?

As we've already gone over, repeatedly, Microsoft's "shared source" is not "open source". It only allows them to view portions of the code, and rights to view other more critical portions requires a trip to Redmond Washington and is only allowed under strict circumstances. Nothing else is allowed.

Conversely, "open source" like Linux allows the Chinese to view all portions of the code, to copy it infinitely, to modify it, rename it something else, even resell it without a dime back to the US. In fact, that's what the Chinese government does with "Red Hat" Linux which comes from the US. They download a free copy, rename it "Red Flag" Linux, then resell it in China without a dime back to the US.

And, the open source crowd is very aware of this, and quite comfortable with it being done. Just as I'm sure you are, but you'd rather blast huge fonts and blame Microsoft instead, in an obvious distraction attempt. Fact is, you'd be quite pleased with Microsoft if they made their software "open source" so the Chinese could copy it, rename it, etc, without violating Microsoft's copyrights.


5 posted on 08/15/2005 4:03:34 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle

".....the growing "open source" crowd would rather just give it all away to them, for free."

They offer to give it all away to you too, so what's the fuss about.

Opensource is kewel.

Linux is kewel.

Get over it.


6 posted on 08/15/2005 4:04:37 PM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: taxed2death
They offer to give it all away to you too, so what's the fuss about.

Simple, because I'm a capitalist, and not a communist.

7 posted on 08/15/2005 4:09:06 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle

"As we've already gone over, repeatedly, Microsoft's "shared source" is not "open source". It only allows them to view portions of the code, and rights to view other more critical portions requires a trip to Redmond Washington and is only allowed under strict circumstances. Nothing else is allowed."

Are you really that gullible? Did you work for the clinton administration with their "let's trust the communist chinese government at their word" policy? Are you working on one with north korea?

The best part though is that anyone with half a brain can easily see through your apologist BS.


8 posted on 08/15/2005 4:10:39 PM PDT by flashbunny (Always remember to bring a towel!)
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To: Golden Eagle

These open source true believers seem to think that they can dump their way into the "emerging markets" and then, figure out (by the seats of their pants?) at some later date how to actually make money. The problem is, there will be no follow on business. One the Chi Coms get the IP, they'll dump us like an ugly, boorish date!


9 posted on 08/15/2005 4:13:32 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the"and Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: flashbunny

I work for Bill Clinton? LOL, in case you forgot, his "justice" department did all they could to break Microsoft up, a judgement I'm sure you supported. Not to mention, he removed all export controls on software, so supercomputer software like Linux could freely flow to places like China without restriction. I think the record clearly shows I am completely opposed to his policies on software and technology, while you seem to be in total lockstep.


10 posted on 08/15/2005 4:14:57 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle

Boy, you must be incredibly dense. Or is that just your tactics on 'how to deal with facts'???

BTW, that SCO suit against linux is going great, ain't it???


11 posted on 08/15/2005 4:17:04 PM PDT by flashbunny (Always remember to bring a towel!)
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To: Golden Eagle

http://newstrolls.com/news/dev/CJ/111299.htm


12 posted on 08/15/2005 4:17:55 PM PDT by CJ Wolf
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To: GOP_1900AD
These open source true believers seem to think that they can dump their way into the "emerging markets" and then, figure out (by the seats of their pants?) at some later date how to actually make money. The problem is, there will be no follow on business. One the Chi Coms get the IP, they'll dump us like an ugly, boorish date!

You got it. They've already taken free copies of Red Hat and renamed them to Red Flag, if that's not an indication of how little they respect our property, and are more than willing to take our free copies and rename them something insulting to the US, I don't know what would be.

13 posted on 08/15/2005 4:18:01 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: flashbunny

What facts? You obviously have none. All you've done is fly in with a giant and bright red font, accusing Microsoft of being guilty of something the open sourcers like yourself actually support, then throw Bill Clinton into the discussion who obviously supported free software transfers without restriction, while hurling insults all along the way.

But by all means, please continue, you are an excellent representative of the kind of people who support these free technology transfers to China, and despise for-profit software companies like Microsoft. Thanks again.


14 posted on 08/15/2005 4:22:29 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Golden Eagle

I hate to tell you, but China is has been headed towards technological domination for a long time, and not just in software.

I was a student at SUNY @ Stony Brook, a college known for physics, medicine, and engineering. It's where the CAT scan was developed, is associated with Brookhaven National Labs, and at one time, Bell Labs and later ATT hired more electrical engineers for their Murray Hill facility from Stony Brook than any other college.

When I was there back in 1987, you could go days without hearing english spoken in the engineering buildings. I had an EE course, digital logic IIRC, where the professor was from China. Red China. He was at Stony Brook doing post doctoral work. He was completely unintelligible, and would occasionally lapse into Chinese during his lectures. I would say that at least 2/3 of all of the engineering, physics, and computer science students were foreign, the vast majority were asian.

We're training their best scientific minds at our best educational and research facilities, and sending them back home to compete with us.

Mark


15 posted on 08/15/2005 4:26:54 PM PDT by MarkL (It was a shocking cock-up. The mice were furious!)
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To: Golden Eagle

You must not know anything about GNU and how open source works.

GNU gives anyone the right to distribute and redistirbute the software and even charge for it. That's how it works.

China uses Linux because windows is expensive. And with open source, they can be assured that no spy agencies will put in some code in there to do something malicious.

As someone said, "open source is kewl" and i'll agree with him on that. Open source is cool, microsoft sucks.


16 posted on 08/15/2005 4:29:51 PM PDT by pganini
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To: Golden Eagle
OK, go on and stick your head in the sand. "The Chinese government is limited to X" - anyone who believes they'll abide by such an agreement that is either a fool or a liar.

It's funny - you impugn Linux by association based on the fact that the Chinese use it - and when Chinese government has access to the source code of windows, by golly they're going to follow their agreement to the letter. They're such honorable chaps, after all!

You can't have it both ways, but you always try. In the process, you shoot yourself in the foot on every one of these threads.

If you're an example of the "enemies of Linux", the only thing they have to worry about is falling over from laughter as they watch you shoot one toe after another off your feet.

Yep, a real intellectual giant in the OS wars!
17 posted on 08/15/2005 4:30:57 PM PDT by flashbunny (Always remember to bring a towel!)
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To: Golden Eagle

And which, shall you tell me, are the restrictions applied to Linux competitors, and why can't be applied to it the same way?


18 posted on 08/15/2005 4:31:14 PM PDT by Codename - Ron Benjamin (I'm gonna sing the doom song now!)
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To: MarkL
I would say that at least 2/3 of all of the engineering, physics, and computer science students were foreign, the vast majority were asian.

No longer...due to new visa restrictions and the dot-com crash, the number of chinese nationals as graduate students in technical fields seems to have fallen sharply. Almost all of the incoming graduate students the last couple years in my university in my field (highly anecdotal, I know) are US nationals, as opposed to say 5 years ago.
19 posted on 08/15/2005 4:32:49 PM PDT by DSDan
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To: Golden Eagle
open source is deadly poison to a totalitarian state.

on the other hand, microsoft would do anything the chinese elites asked of them in order to gain a foothold there, and in fact, have much more extensive ties with the PRC than, say linus torvalds or "Red" Hat...

20 posted on 08/15/2005 4:36:19 PM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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