Posted on 08/16/2005 12:09:54 PM PDT by proud_yank
"Much simpler to just slap a 10~15% flat-rate revenue on ALL imports, regardless whether or not they come from Canada, Mexico, China or wherever."
Are you willing to pay 15% more for your gas, oil, food, electricity and autos?
No, I'll be buying the domestic brands which will cost less than the imports.
Canada could, of course take all their marbles, quit the game and go home. That is not going to happen. So I suggest playing to win, which is way more fun.
And that simply means a log auction is the best way to settle the market price of logs.
Also Canada will accept somewhere between 19 and 27% duties.
I do not see that on the table though as softwood lumber has become a great political tool for Liberals.
Also, nobody is leaving NAFTA, unless Jack Layton actually wins the next election.
Ewww...Even the idea of Jack winning makes me feel tainted....
Also America cannot settle anything now that Canada has left the table.
Canadians do not understand that even the POTUS can not take away the lumber industry's rights to their day in court in the USA.
Mr. Bush could probably trade quite a bit of his own political capital to get it done, but why should he?
Jack Layton could come out very well positioned in Canada in the next election.
Well, maybe we can play sometime. Anyways, you're right that nothing can be settled now that Canada left the table.
And yes, I agree that the NDP will probably do decently in the next election. And continue extorting the liberals.
If you have a suggestion, I'd like to hear it, though.
"maintaining a reasonably priced flow of oil from Canada would be something the U.S. should be particularly concerned about "
Write your politicians and tell them to cut off oil exports to the US. Do it.
You and other non-thinking canadians solution to a trade dispute over lumber is to not sell us oil?
Just another in a long, tiring tirade of vintage Canadian whines. Don't threaten....do it. Spare us the drama - because we know that you aren't going to do anything but complain, no matter what......
"We may have a small military but are also part of the Commonwealth. I'm pretty sure if push came to shove, the Brits, Australians etc would back us...not the US."
I'll take that bet. If push came to shove, your fellow Commonwealth countries would not be able or willing to help you. Why should they?
Maybe a Conservative government can get her done.
I'm a member, for all the good it does me.
Decency? Loyalty? You know, the normal list. And if you're right, does that make you happy? Are you celebrating the slow motion death of the western world?
You mock Canada, but Canada, like it or not, is part of the Western world and a neighbor. The U.S, has much more to gain from a prosperous Canada, especially one run by a Conservative government, than from an impotent, pathetic Canada.
Canadians who are proud of their heritage does not change the reality of where the boots hit the ground today.
"You mock Canada, but Canada, like it or not, is part of the Western world and a neighbor."
Oh, so now you want to be a neighbor? In that case, I'm more than willing to cooperate. No more of this passive-aggressive crap then, ok? We know you don't mean it, but it's annoying.
"The U.S, has much more to gain from a prosperous Canada, especially one run by a Conservative government"
There are too few conservative canadians still in canada. You will never have a significant conservative government. I married one, and I'm business partners with another one. They will never go back.....
Canada will never be a great country under NDP or Liberal leadership, and there are too few conservatives to make a dent. You like your socialism too much up there. I only hope we can keep that disease from reaching the terminal stage in the US, as it most certainly has in Canada.
Canadian troops are in Afghanistan and Iraq. The sad truth is we couldn't have officially committed a large unit to Iraq even if the Liberals had wanted to because we didn't have the capability (we have between 50-150 soldiers there today integrated with your forces). Furthermore, the Liberals are simply the largest fragment of Canada. Which means they win majorities with all of 37 or 38% of the population of Canada. Conservatives are 34%.
Canada is still in Afghanistan with you. We are still your neighbor.
Were you not an American when Jimmy Carter was president? Or when Clinton was? Of course you were, even if you didn't agree with their policies. Was America not an ally of Britain in WWII, even though you didn't join for almost 3 years while Brits, Canadians and Australians slogged it out? Of course America was an ally of Britain, even if they weren't fighting at the time.
"Decency? Loyalty? You know, the normal list."
In that case, the United States wins hands down over Canada. How about India? I don't think they'll support Canada either.
The United States is a far more decent country than Canada. It pretty much always has been, but Canadians have been able to delude themselves. The vitriol and anti-americanism of the past few years has been mainstream canada for some time (20 years since I've experienced it)
It's who you are as a country.
First, Liberals = about 37% of Canada. Conservatives are 34%. The other parties make up the rest. It's a big gulf to make, but not impossible.
"Canada will never be a great country under NDP or Liberal leadership, and there are too few conservatives to make a dent. You like your socialism too much up there. I only hope we can keep that disease from reaching the terminal stage in the US, as it most certainly has in Canada. "
Untrue. There are enough conservatives to take the best parts of this country if we all decide we've had enough together. Secondly, a lot of the socialism is being critically re-examined now, if you care. We've achieved a major victory and we're paving the way for optional private healthcare. It's almost here. People said it couldn't be done then, and we've nearly done it.
The Liberals are tough; they're a political behemoth, but they're not invincible. Through enough magnum at it, and even a grizzly will croak eventually.
And Canadian conservatives have always been proud to be neighbors, allies and friends with Americans. We cheer for America louder than many Americans. We are fighting for political survival and victory here. Throw us some help if you want a loyal northern ally, don't take petty potshots at us from the distance.
I may move to America one day, but until that day, I will fight for the way my country should be, just as 34% of my countrymen are doing. It's not a lost cause. It might take a lot to wake Canada up from its hibernation, but once it's up, we'll be damned pissed, and the terrorists and anti-Americans won't have come loaded for bear.
So give us a break, and give us something to work with. It's easier to say "Look, let's trust the Americans. They do have a histor of abiding my their arrangements: look at softwood lumber, they do keep their words" rather than saying "We should ally with America even though they don't keep their word and an agreement with them isn't worth the paper its written on."
People would be more sympathetic to those with a proud and clean slate, rather than a history of dishonesty and dishonor.
The sad truth is the Liberals did not want to support the Yanks, the Brits and the Aussies in the Iraq War and they still don't.
And neither do most Canadians, I'd guess.
America didn't enter WWI until 1917. Or WWII until almost 1942. Canada was in WWI in 1914. And in 1939. We were there when Britain needed us.
In Korea, my best friend's grandfather still remembers Pyonyang, but my friend and I still defend America and American troops.
America only came in when they were attacked (although many decent Americans, maybe even most, did want in earlier, to be fair, as I point out to those who criticise America for that). Canada was in Korea. Canadian troops fought in Nam. Canada was in Gulf War 1. We are in Afghanistan with you. Canadian troops are in Iraq. We fight your wars with you as best we can. Maybe it's not much, thanks to the Liberals ruining our military. But we come and we fight and we bleed and we die alongside you.
Just because you don't like some Canadians talking smack about your country (which is what you are doing about mine right now ala "It's who you are as a country") doesn't mean United States has pretty much always been a more decent country than Canada or that Canada is not an ally of America.
You want to make more enemies for yourself, fine. But remember, despite all the jibes made by some homegrown loudmouths, who was there with you.
You don't like how the Liberals act? Well, too bad. We Conservatives don't like it much either. Don't forget the history, and don't criticise us. Help us and help yourselves.
America didn't enter WWI until 1917. Or WWII until almost 1942. Canada was in WWI in 1914. And in 1939. We were there when Britain needed us.
In Korea, my best friend's grandfather still remembers Pyonyang, but my friend and I still defend America and American troops.
America only came in when they were attacked (although many decent Americans, maybe even most, did want in earlier, to be fair, as I point out to those who criticise America for that). Canada was in Korea. Canadian troops fought in Nam. Canada was in Gulf War 1. We are in Afghanistan with you. Canadian troops are in Iraq. We fight your wars with you as best we can. Maybe it's not much, thanks to the Liberals ruining our military. But we come and we fight and we bleed and we die alongside you.
Just because you don't like some Canadians talking smack about your country (which is what you are doing about mine right now ala "It's who you are as a country") doesn't mean United States has pretty much always been a more decent country than Canada or that Canada is not an ally of America.
You want to make more enemies for yourself, fine. But remember, despite all the jibes made by some homegrown loudmouths, who was there with you.
You don't like how the Liberals act? Well, too bad. We Conservatives don't like it much either. Don't forget the history, and don't criticise us. Help us and help yourselves.
No, they didn't. But they did. And you shouldn't forget that. And many of us wanted too, and that's important to remember too.
America is not without loyal friends, and it won't be so long as America remembers that and remembers who its friends are. And remembers that even though they might not always be in government, that still strong groups support them and fight for them every day. Against as pressure every bit as great (and in Canada, quite possibly greater) as the anti-Americanism on the American left.
You don't think it doesn't cost conservative Christians and Jews in Canada to defend you? In the high schools and universities, you get called capitalist imperialists and fascists and zionazis and Christian reich and more crap than that to stand up and say "you know what? America has done some pretty terrible things in its history, but it still stands in defence of freedom and many virtues".
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