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A fascinating new look at America before Columbus
The Charlotte Observer ^ | Aug. 14, 2005 | CHARLES MATTHEWS

Posted on 08/17/2005 11:43:12 AM PDT by Between the Lines

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To: Martin Tell
Couldn't have said it better myself. Sure, there were plenty of people, and plenty going on, just not a lot of it very technologically advanced - for a really long time, like ever.

Didn't the arrival of Europeans signal the beginning of European development of the new world? How could it be that their arrival wiped the natives out, then everything just grew over wild? Especially when you consider how much whining goes on about how the "white man" moved in and destroyed everything. Can't have it both ways.
101 posted on 08/17/2005 2:47:27 PM PDT by auntyfemenist (Show me your papers...)
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To: LS

I'm not sure the wheel was ever a universal instrument until the great democratic experiment came along. Certainly coaches were available for hire or for passenger transit in 17th-18th century Europe, and the UK rail system brought it to more and more people, but it was the Americans who truly made it universal -- and imperative, first with the railroad and next as personal transportation.

I've seen stats on cart/carriage building c. 1900's, and if I remember correctly it was some 5 million a year. This, of course, fed the dreams of the budding automobilists, who finally made good on it once the motorcar was freed of the demagogues.


102 posted on 08/17/2005 2:52:14 PM PDT by nicollo (All economics are politics.)
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To: bobbdobbs

There seems to have been built in limits. Cahokia seems to have "flammed out" because their technology could not support so large a concentration of people in their society. They never learned to domestic any meat animals, for instance, Easy to forget what the cow has meant for our civilization.


103 posted on 08/17/2005 2:56:25 PM PDT by RobbyS (chirho)
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To: LS
Good afternoon.
"Why do you have to have animals before a wheel is useful?"

All you need is coolies and a rickshaw. The Aztec would have had plenty of potential coolies, even after sacrificing thousands at a time.

Michael Frazier
104 posted on 08/17/2005 2:57:15 PM PDT by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: Adder

Unlikely. An earlier estimate is 50 million, which seems more likely.


105 posted on 08/17/2005 2:57:28 PM PDT by RobbyS (chirho)
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Comment #106 Removed by Moderator

To: ThomasNast
They arrived before the Earth was even formed. They were clever.

(Rolls eyes)

107 posted on 08/17/2005 3:01:34 PM PDT by Modernman ("A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy." -Disraeli)
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Comment #108 Removed by Moderator

To: edcoil
Correct me but if I remember correctly the sailors that went back to Europe took a lot of Indian sexual diseases with them then did not exist in europe before.

It's more complicated than that. Apparently there were two strains floating around, a European one and an American one. Here's more information:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_syphilis/index.html

109 posted on 08/17/2005 3:05:09 PM PDT by Heyworth
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To: fish hawk

Tomatoes came to North America from the Spanish.


110 posted on 08/17/2005 3:08:10 PM PDT by hispanarepublicana (Figure it out for yourself. This is Texas--Fed-Up Rancher, Crawford, TX Aug., 2005)
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To: Cinnamon Girl
If there were tons of healthy people with cultivated land and buffalo to eat, why were they so far behind the Europeans?

One theory I've read is that, for whatever reason, metals in the Americas are more difficult to mine, whether due to geology or geography or whatever. So, the native populations were unable to make the step from stone tools to metal tools.

I don't know how accurate that is, to tell you the truth.

111 posted on 08/17/2005 3:09:07 PM PDT by Modernman ("A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy." -Disraeli)
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To: bobbdobbs

It was not that they didn't have technology, it was that their technology was inadequate to support a large urban population for more than a century or so. Maybe it ws because their political structure did not allow for a good organization of a work force.


112 posted on 08/17/2005 3:12:19 PM PDT by RobbyS (chirho)
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fascinating-thread-placeholder-mark


113 posted on 08/17/2005 3:15:51 PM PDT by hispanarepublicana (Figure it out for yourself. This is Texas--Fed-Up Rancher, Crawford, TX Aug., 2005)
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To: bobbdobbs

The Anasazi didn't really disappear. War and famine (or, more likely, war brought on by famine) forced them out of their original cities, like Chaco Canyon, and up the canyons and up into the cliffs. Later, when things calmed down, they left the cliffs and moved to better locations, becoming the modern Pueblo tribes.


114 posted on 08/17/2005 3:24:38 PM PDT by Heyworth
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To: Martin Tell

The Mayan concept of zero is an interesting insight into how the Mayans thought about things. Their "Zero" was a set that was "full", therefore you could put nothing more into it, hence it was a ZERO item. Most of us, probably due to cultural and linquistic shaping of our thought processes, would think of zero as an EMPTY set. Perhaps the Mayans thought of the zero as blocking the input of anything else, and hence that "Place" was full of nothing...?


115 posted on 08/17/2005 3:48:36 PM PDT by Auntie Dem (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Terrorist lovers gotta go!)
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To: Between the Lines

I understand, vis-a-vis animals. But the wheel has vast uses (gears, for ex.) beyond transportation.


116 posted on 08/17/2005 4:40:15 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: Unassuaged

Indians, ate horse meat. Ate them to extinction.

The facts are that no horses lived until the spanish returned them. It was then that indians used them to hunt and ride them as is so often shown.

BTW, my family came to these shores in 1933 and walked to what is now called Michigan.


117 posted on 08/17/2005 5:12:37 PM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: edcoil

Your family WALKED to Michigan? Why walked? (I'm fascinated by people's family histories and stories).


118 posted on 08/17/2005 5:22:24 PM PDT by hispanarepublicana (Figure it out for yourself. This is Texas--Fed-Up Rancher, Crawford, TX Aug., 2005)
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To: hispanarepublicana

You mean the Spanish brought them over from Spain? So you're saying that Spain already had tomatoes? Sorry guess again.


119 posted on 08/17/2005 6:50:35 PM PDT by fish hawk (hollow points were made to hold pig lard)
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To: fish hawk

I thought I read that in Food & Wine or something.....that tomatoes were not indigenous to N. America and were brought over from Europe.....where did they come from?


120 posted on 08/17/2005 7:16:12 PM PDT by hispanarepublicana (Figure it out for yourself. This is Texas--Fed-Up Rancher, Crawford, TX Aug., 2005)
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