Posted on 08/21/2005 8:22:43 AM PDT by Saint Reagan
....""We're past that stage now because now we are locked into a bogged-down problem not unsimilar, dissimilar to where we were in Vietnam," Hagel said. "The longer we stay, the more problems we're going to have." ".....
That's exactly right Chuckie!
The longer we expect our trained killers to fight with their hands behind their backs, unwilling to risk hurting a woman or child who are harboring terrorists, ragheads who don't care who they kill including themselves, we will be bogged down and lose brave Americans.
Stop this crazy PC Bullsh!t and let our troops unleash the hell that they're trained for, kill all these coward ragheads, and if women and children get killed, too bad.
We're not fighting Iraqi's anymore, we're fighting trained radheads imported for the job of killing Americans. Iraqi's must help us by pointing out the scum that are nested in their towns, then we can get down to business!
Well let's see. No clear victory or end in sight. We are not going after the countries that are supplying the terrorists (Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia), American body bags nightly, fighting against guerilla warfare, Americans are turning against the war. The similarities of this war and Vietnam are greater than the differences.
... but cut-and-run? Now THAT'S a policy!!!
I doubt that Chuck Hagel remembers Vietnam as well as those of us who were there. Perhaps if he put down the booze (from Kennedy) and sobered up and realized that Iraq has problem areas in only about 10 - 15% of the country, he might realize that the only similarity between Iraq and Vietnam is that both are countries on earth and both have had wars.
If it's looking like vietnam then Chuckie HAgel must have been on that Christmas in Cambodia flight of fancy Hanoi John Kerry said was seared in his memory.Maybe Chuck and
Cindy She hand wer eholding hands as they got fired on the
Kmer Rouge.
That's MSM-speak for RINO.
But just to rant slightly, our entire casualties after years in Iraq are less than the dead EACH MONTH in Vietnam. We have 130,000 troops there versus 500,000 in Nam. There is no Soviet Union superpower to back the insurgents. The Middle East, duh, is not SouthEast Asia.
There is one very important similarity. We literally had WON the Vietnam war and achieved a peace treaty. People like Hagel are delusional if they don't know that. The N Vietnamese re-invaded after Nixon was impeached and the liberals like Hagel denied our allies even supplies to defend themselves with. It's scary when liberals talk about Vietnam, because that was when the liberal insanity first took hold.
Hagel...is this bitch still considered a republican?
I'm expecting him to join Cindy in the ditch at any moment.
"Exactly, we are pussy-footin around. How many have been executed for leading attacks, harboring or having possession of weapons or materials?"
We have on a daily basis been killing terrorists ... like this case: "A lieutenant of al-Qaeda terror boss Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has been killed by Iraqi security forces in Mosul, the US military said. Mohammed Salah Sultan, also known as Abu Zubair, was killed on Friday, the US statement said."
http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com/2005/08/another-terrorist-killed.html
Or this case:
MOSUL: Police in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul said yesterday one of its units ambushed and killed three members of a cell loyal to Al Qaeda’s frontman in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
“One of our units trapped the members of the cell and had a skirmish with them in the Nour district, in the east of Mosul at around 10am (0600 GMT),” said General Abdul Aziz Juburi, the chief of Ninive province’s interim police force. “The chief of the cell, Mohamed Saleh Sultan, alias Abu Zubair, was among those killed,” he said without adding whether or not the police suffered any casualties during the operation.
or this:
"U.S. troops Tuesday killed four insurgents trying to plant a roadside bomb in the city of Ramadi, police Lt. Mohammed al-Obeidi said.
U.S. and Iraqi forces killed two insurgents and arrested 22 others in northern Iraq, the U.S. military said Tuesday. Soldiers from the U.S. Army's 3rd Battalion, 21st Infantry Regiment killed the insurgents, found setting up a mortar tube Monday in Mosul.
US and Iraqi forces have killed 11 foreign fighters and arrested 805 others throughout Iraq last week, a statement by the Multinational Force said Monday. The statement said joint US-Iraqi forces launched 182 operations in the week ending August 5th in different parts of Iraq. Some 109 explosive charge devices and 22 arms caches were seized."
http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com/2005/08/terrorists-killed-in-iraq.html
The US foolishly abolished the death penalty during the CPA phase. Dont ask, some State Dept idea i guess. So we only kill them if we are lucky enough to have them resist when we come upon them.
Well the new Iraq Govt has no such qualms. They have re-instituted the death penalty and have already sentenced some vile terrorists who killed others to death. And of course, Saddam himself faces a death penalty sentence.
Naturally, Amesty International has protested the Iraqi Govt!! That's right, once again standing up for the right of terrorists to kill without facing similar fate.
On the terrorists caught, see also:
Prisoner count
http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com/2005/06/prisoner-count.html
Mosul terrorists nailed
http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com/2005/08/mosul-terrorists-killedcaptured-list.html
But we're so sorry we 'cut and run' in Vietnam we now trade with all the dominos. We made market economies out of commie economies. Guess we won after all.
Hagel is your typical RINO liberal. The good people of Nebraska deserves better.
"No clear victory or end in sight."
What morons are thinking that?
The roadmap of political and security development is crytal clear to those who unplug their ears and *listen*.
Political process:
- sovereignty handoff, June 2004 (DONE)
- elections for national assembly, Jan 2005 (DONE)
- Constitution put before people to vote on, Oct 2005 (IN PROGRESS)
- National elections for first permanent Government, Dec 2005 (ON TRACK)
Security:
- Train up iraqi forces to tackle security (IN PROGRESS)
Training has been going on for some time,
and now Iraqi units are taking the lead in fighting terrorists in many places:
http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com/2005/08/iraqi-soldiers-getting-training.html
Assessement of current status:
http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com/2005/08/iraqi-security-forces-readiness.html
Based on the advisers' assessments, more than three dozen of the 110 Iraqi battalions have been judged "capable" of taking the lead in counterinsurgency operations -- albeit with U.S. forces providing some logistics and medical support. The remaining units either are still in training or capable of fighting with U.S. troops in the lead.
Other metrics:
"one key measure of progress is the number of police stations lost to the insurgents. The Iraqi police surrendered dozens of police stations to the insurgents in the latter half of 2004. Despite heavy casualties from car bombs and attacks, the police haven't surrendered any stations in Baghdad in 2005. "The Iraqi police are standing and fighting," he says in an email from Iraq." ...
Last November, when the first Iraqi army units were tapped to go into Fallujah with the Marines, many U.S. officials worried that a sizable percentage would jump ship before they even got to the fight. ... Today there are 13 Iraqi battalions fighting in al Anbar province, which includes Fallujah. Three more battalions are on their way. This time no one is worried about how many of those troops will get on the truck, he says.
By 2006, in a mere 12 months, the Iraqi security forces will be far stronger, the political system in Iraq will be set on a firm foundation, and the economy in Iraq will be even better. Further, there is clear evidence Sunni tribes that until now were 'holding back' against political changes and
the 'occupation'are sick of Zarqawi and want to join the civil political process.
This will snuff out the insurgency to a large degree, leaving a smaller hard-core to deal with (that may take some time, but which will NOT stop Iraq's development in democratic Governance).
We are defeating the terrorists in Iraq.
Iraq - better than it looks:
http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com/2005/08/iraq-better-than-it-looks.html
"we're not winning."
"He has a point. We are not being anywhere NEAR brutal enough."
If he advocated what you advocated, he would have said it. He would have advocated attacking Iran militarily, or have raids into terrorist havens in Syria, or said that the whole GITMO allegations are nonsense and we need to line up terrorists we capture and execute them.
He didnt.
He simply is a 'cut-n-run' media whore RINO, saying what feels good to get attention and feed mindless defeatism on the subject.
Bump for project
Little Chuckie Hagel - RINO par excellance and Judas wannabe.
Who cares what this quisling thinks except maybe some Democrats who want to use as him as a dtool pigeon.
"By any standard, when you analyze 2 1/2 years in Iraq ... we're not winning."
What the heck is this guy talking about. Which battles have we lost? What terrorists or insurgents are in power? What towns or areas are being managed by these insurgents? Exactly what have these terrorists/insurgents that Chuck thinks are winning done to help the Iraqi people? Have they built any schools, water plants, electrical plants? Do these insurgents have 47 ambassadors from foreign countries that have recognized them?
Just what metric is Hagel using to make this statement?
No use entering the fray. If folks don't see your points, then they are simply waiting for their plumes to be plucked out of their butts. I salute Chuck for his past military service.
Then the saluting stops.
My comment was directed more at losing the propaganda war.
Our administration needs to put immediate number 1 priority to that fact....and act. We've got bright people in this administration who ought to be able to accomplish this....post haste!
I can think of one big difference. We are fighting AQ and the Islamofascists, the people who attacked us repeatedly culminating in 9/11. In Vietnam, we were fighting to prevent a Communist take over of South Vietnam. There were strategic interests involved, but we were not fighting an enemy who attacked us directly.
It always strikes me as interesting that the antiwar crowd never mentions Afghanistan, and tries to separate the "good war" from the one we are waging in Iraq. In fact, they are part and parcel of the war on terror. Make no mistake about it.
American body bags nightly, fighting against guerilla warfare,
If we, as the world's lone superpower and a nation of 300 million, are so casualty averse that we cannot stomach the loss of 1863 dead in Iraq since March 2003 (1450 from hostile fire and 413 from non-hostile causes), in protection of our national interests, then we are indeed a paper tiger. To compare these losses to the over 58,000 killed in Vietnam over an eight year period is nonsense.
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