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Calif. Marijuana Seizures Up 20 Percent
http://www.telegram.com/ ^ | 8 28 05 | The Associated Press

Posted on 08/28/2005 5:59:52 PM PDT by freepatriot32

SACRAMENTO, Calif.— Agents have seized more than $2.6 billion worth of marijuana plants this year, already surpassing last year's season total by 20 percent, authorities said.

The state Department of Justice's annual Campaign Against Marijuana Planting, or CAMP, is still a month away from wrapping up operations after the season peak at the end of September.

The raids, many in remote, forested terrain, pit agents against often heavily armed guards protecting their marijuana plots.

About three weeks ago, a grower was shot dead and a state Fish and Game warden was wounded during a raid on a 22,000-plant pot farm in the hills above Los Gatos. It was the fourth death in a marijuana raid shootout with authorities in the past three years and the first time a law enforcement officer has been shot in CAMP's 22-year history.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: 20percent; banglist; bongbrigade; braindamage; burnouts; calif; california; crybabypotheads; donutwatch; dopers; druggies; farout; gangaweed; heydude; heyman; killerbuds; marijuana; munchies; needcookies; potheads; rollyerown; sacramento; seizures; skunkweed; stoners; thatsmrleroytoyou; tuneinturnondropout; tuneinturnondropuot; up; wodlist; wowdude; zigzag
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1 posted on 08/28/2005 6:00:02 PM PDT by freepatriot32
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To: Allosaurs_r_us; Abram; AlexandriaDuke; Annie03; Baby Bear; bassmaner; Bernard; BJClinton; ...
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
2 posted on 08/28/2005 6:00:40 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Deep within every dilemma is a solution that involves explosives)
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To: Wolfie

ping


3 posted on 08/28/2005 6:01:37 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Deep within every dilemma is a solution that involves explosives)
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To: freepatriot32

I feel much safer now that we have the evil weed off the street. I wish the CHP would put 50% of their force on this so that we can do even better.


4 posted on 08/28/2005 6:02:55 PM PDT by bigsigh
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To: bigsigh
I feel much safer now that we have the evil weed off the street.

Reminds me of Glaxo-SmithKline claiming that they were removing their very effective CFC-based asthma inhalers from the market in order to (I'm not kidding) "save the ozone layer."

5 posted on 08/28/2005 6:13:12 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

If we double or triple the dea budget we'll stop this for sure. We've got people shooting at each other on the freeway and we're using cops to catch people in possession of vegetation.


6 posted on 08/28/2005 6:15:41 PM PDT by bigsigh
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To: bigsigh
Lol...

You sure know how to rattle cages...

7 posted on 08/28/2005 6:19:23 PM PDT by sit-rep (If you acquire, hit it again to verify...)
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To: sit-rep

usually from the inside


8 posted on 08/28/2005 6:21:24 PM PDT by bigsigh
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To: freepatriot32

It's part of the culture war. Sorry if pot-lovers must suffer for it, but whatever locks away criminals is a good thing.


9 posted on 08/28/2005 6:34:26 PM PDT by SteveMcKing ("I was born a Democrat. I expect I'll be a Democrat the day I leave this earth." -Zell Miller '04)
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To: SteveMcKing

I agree. and I'm more than willing to pay the taxes it takes to lock these violent criminals up in my state at $27,000 per person per year. Thanx for doing your share as a concerned anti-drug citizen.


10 posted on 08/28/2005 6:43:24 PM PDT by bigsigh
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To: SteveMcKing

Actually having federalism might work better than the WoD if you are really interested in winning the culture war.


11 posted on 08/28/2005 6:44:01 PM PDT by Spike Spiegel
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To: Spike Spiegel; All

Pot is not harmless, but I think it's time to focus more on the harder stuff such as cocaine and heroin. We can divert a lot more funding for the War on Terror towards coke and heroin if they didn't waste so much money on weed.

I am not saying I am pro-weed, I am not saying weed is 100% harmless, but the War on Drugs is still in the 'old school' and needs to realize that there is a very big difference between crack-cocaine and grass.

Most of the violence, thefts, and other serious crimes are associated with hard drugs. Not marijuana.

Billy Kess


12 posted on 08/28/2005 6:52:34 PM PDT by PatriotEdition (www.billykess.com)
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To: freepatriot32

Not sure I believe this. Sounds like they're just justifying their jobs.


13 posted on 08/28/2005 6:52:43 PM PDT by Clock King ("How will it end?" - Emperor; "In Fire." - Kosh)
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To: bigsigh

The high cost of jail is attributed to the same culture that embraces the crime. Your issue is with them, not with enforcement policy.

God knows- there is a cheap and final solution for drug crimes, if only you'd stop defending them.


14 posted on 08/28/2005 6:54:11 PM PDT by SteveMcKing ("I was born a Democrat. I expect I'll be a Democrat the day I leave this earth." -Zell Miller '04)
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To: SteveMcKing
Hey, I agreed with you and now you're slamming me. Lock em up for life. I don't care.

You do understand that it's a sign of mental illness to do what you always done, keep getting the same result, but expect a different result. And you're asking me to pay for your psychosis.

15 posted on 08/28/2005 6:59:11 PM PDT by bigsigh
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To: bigsigh

"I agree. and I'm more than willing to pay the taxes it takes to lock these violent criminals up in my state at $27,000 per person per year. Thanx for doing your share as a concerned anti-drug citizen."

If SteveMcKing is serious about fighting the evil marijuana threat, might I suggest some of us get a list of his friends so we can ferret out the evildoers that surround him. Since maryjane is everywhere, I guarantee Steve has friends who need to be busted. I for one would be happy to travel at my own expense to become an anti-marijuana investigator in Steve's neighborhood.


16 posted on 08/28/2005 6:59:54 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote

I say start with tax purchased camersa in their car and homes. AQfter 4000 years, it's time to put an end to this behavior.


17 posted on 08/28/2005 7:01:29 PM PDT by bigsigh
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To: bigsigh
"You do understand that it's a sign of mental illness to do what you always done, keep getting the same result, but expect a different result."

That's a drug habit...

18 posted on 08/28/2005 7:01:32 PM PDT by SteveMcKing ("I was born a Democrat. I expect I'll be a Democrat the day I leave this earth." -Zell Miller '04)
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To: SteveMcKing

...and what you're doing. m I'm not hear to defend drugs, but to point out there's other addictions like power and tax money, and the urge stop other people from having pleasrure or escaping.


19 posted on 08/28/2005 7:04:33 PM PDT by bigsigh
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To: freepatriot32
Agents have seized more than $2.6 billion worth of marijuana plants this year, already surpassing last year's season total by 20 percent, authorities said.

So, does this mean they're winning the War on Drugs, or losing?

20 posted on 08/29/2005 4:56:46 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel
So, does this mean they're winning the War on Drugs, or losing?

Of course we're winning the War, comrade!

Only traitors say otherwise!

Ignorance is strength! Let the glorious examples of the DEA vanguard elements renew your faith in the Government.

Now, comrade mvpel, hit the deck and give me twenty push-ups just for asking the question!

21 posted on 08/29/2005 7:53:36 AM PDT by headsonpikes (The Liberal Party of Canada are not b*stards - b*stards have mothers!)
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To: freepatriot32
Agents have seized more than $2.6 billion worth of marijuana plants this year

This is just what they have found, in one state. Imagine if ALL the crop from ALL the US was taxed and legal. Not only would tax revenue rise through the roof, but law enforcement would have a tremendous increase in available manpower. Police currently used in the WOD could go after crack, heroin, coke and meth dealers and maybe, just maybe, there would be enough manpower to tackle the illegal alien problem. All this for a product that is basically the equivalent of tobacco.

Before any of you guiltless stone throwers start on me, I don't smoke the stuff but don't care if people, free people, smoke pot or tobacco.

22 posted on 08/29/2005 8:15:15 AM PDT by SunTzuWu
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To: SteveMcKing

Do you smoke tobacco or drink alcohol?


23 posted on 08/29/2005 8:19:05 AM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: headsonpikes

This reveals an ... opportunity ... in the intellectual framework of the War on Drugs, comrade! We should alter the language to remove the outdated bourgeois concepts of "winning" and "losing" from any discussion of the War on Drugs!


24 posted on 08/29/2005 8:26:40 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: SunTzuWu

If it were taxed and legal, the "$2.6 billion worth" of plants they seized would be worth $100,000 or so, so there's not quite as much tax revenue as it first appears.

What we really need to do is get POISON IVY declared a schedule I drug, so that they can spend billions of dollars a year removing it from my back yard. At least then I'd be getting something useful for my tax money.


25 posted on 08/29/2005 8:28:53 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel

I gotta disagree. Your figure works out to only 3%. Local sales tax is more than twice that (here in NC) and that's before income tax on the profit and withholding tax on employees of the growers (if it was legal). The article only lists the seized pot in Ca. for Jan. to Aug. of this year only. I'll look for the estimates for national crop figures but nation wide, pot is our nations leading cash crop.


26 posted on 08/29/2005 8:41:03 AM PDT by SunTzuWu
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To: SunTzuWu

My point is that pot only costs $10-$12 per gram because it's illegal, and there's a very high risk-offset payment included in the price.

By comparison, premium imported Jordanian hookah tobacco is $2.25 for 50 grams (4.5 cents per gram) or $7.95 for 250 grams (3.2 cents per gram). Cheap "Pure & Natural" brand rolling tobacco is $13.99 per 454 grams (pound) - 3.1 cents per pound. And that includes the goverment-run price supports, tarriffs, and grower quotas for tobacco which drive up its price.

The $2.6 billion figure they quoted is about 217,000 kilograms. At a price-support inflated retail cost of 3.1 cents per gram to match tobacco, that $2.6 billion "value" drops down to $6,683,600.

At a more realistic open-market price in the absence of tobacco's government price-support programs, and considering that pot is a far, far less fussy crop than tobacco - they don't call it "weed" for nothing - I wouldn't be surprised to see that "market value" drop below half a million.


27 posted on 08/29/2005 8:58:16 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Sir Gawain

If such people were heavily into gangs, hard drugs, and cultural subversion, then I'd support a war on tobacco and alcohol.

As it happens, those users are a very good fabric of American society, so prohibition isn't necessary.


28 posted on 08/29/2005 9:00:55 AM PDT by SteveMcKing ("I was born a Democrat. I expect I'll be a Democrat the day I leave this earth." -Zell Miller '04)
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To: mvpel

"Throughout most of my life, I raised tobacco. I want you to know that with my own hands, all of my life, I put it in the plant beds and transferred it. I've hoed it. I've dug in it. I've sprayed it, I've chopped it, I've shredded it, spiked it, put it in the barn and stripped it and sold it.
29 posted on 08/29/2005 9:01:32 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: SteveMcKing
As it happens, those users are a very good fabric of American society, so prohibition isn't necessary.

How do you think Al Capone made his millions? Selling daisies?

The gangs, hard drugs (read bathtub gin, methanol, etc), and cultural subversion that we're seeing today, and which was saw during this nation's first failed experiment with Prohibition, are a byproduct of such policies, not the purpose.

30 posted on 08/29/2005 9:03:49 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: SteveMcKing
If such people were heavily into gangs, hard drugs, and cultural subversion, then I'd support a war on tobacco and alcohol.

Oh, you mean like during Prohibition?

As it happens, those users are a very good fabric of American society, so prohibition isn't necessary.

You gotta be kidding! Do a ride-along with your local police some evening and get a good look at what that "very good fabric of American society (WTF does THAT mean?)" really looks like after a good night of drinking.

You're a tard.

31 posted on 08/29/2005 9:06:03 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: mvpel
Tobacco is cheap because supply more than keeps up with demand. Marijuana has the opposite problem. Demand far exceeds supply. If marijuana was legal, there would be far more grown and that would offset the drop in price that comes from increased supply

I don't know how accurate the following is, I'm still looking for reliable sources.

For Ca.

1.Marijuana $3,870,000

2. Grapes $2,627,104

Marijuana is in the top 10 cash crops for EVERY SINGLE STATE IN THE USA except for North Dakota...and it is the #1 cash crop in Alabama , California , Connecticut, Hawaii, Kentucky , Maine , Rhode Island , Tennessee , Virginia , West Virginia.

32 posted on 08/29/2005 9:12:09 AM PDT by SunTzuWu
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To: SunTzuWu

When Phillip Morris opens a marijuana division, you don't really think the gangsters and drug lords will suddenly get real jobs?

They will turn to other crimes to supplement their lost drug dealing, we just won't have pot as an excuse to arrest them anymore.


33 posted on 08/29/2005 9:17:25 AM PDT by SteveMcKing ("I was born a Democrat. I expect I'll be a Democrat the day I leave this earth." -Zell Miller '04)
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To: SunTzuWu
If marijuana was legal, there would be far more grown and that would offset the drop in price that comes from increased supply

So let me get this straight - an increased supply would offset the drop in price that comes from increased supply?

Huh?

34 posted on 08/29/2005 9:20:32 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: SteveMcKing
They will turn to other crimes to supplement their lost drug dealing, we just won't have pot as an excuse to arrest them anymore.

Exactly, and that's a net benefit for our police, our tax rates, and society in general.

Because now, even if they do arrest someone the system is so overloaded with the average 600,000 annual arrests for simple non-violent possession of pot that they cut cakewalk deals just to get violent and anti-social habitual criminals processed through.

The habitual criminal who shot and killed my friend Officer Dan Niemi - who first introduced me to the shooting sports about five years ago - had been arrested several times, including a drunk-driving conviction, and was on parole through a plea-bargain instead of in prison where he belonged.

35 posted on 08/29/2005 9:34:01 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel

The price drops but the number of units sold rises because it's no longer illegal. Just like lowering taxes generates more revenue.


36 posted on 08/29/2005 12:15:45 PM PDT by SunTzuWu
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To: bigsigh

Once them Libs in Cally figure out they can TAX it, they'll legalize the heck out of it.....


37 posted on 08/29/2005 12:18:43 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: SunTzuWu
Marijuana is in the top 10 cash crops for EVERY SINGLE STATE IN THE USA except for North Dakota...and it is the #1 cash crop in Alabama , California , Connecticut, Hawaii, Kentucky , Maine , Rhode Island , Tennessee , Virginia , West Virginia.

Sounds like another failure of a federal government social policy.

38 posted on 08/29/2005 12:23:46 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: SunTzuWu

Given that labor-intensive tobacco needs price supports and grower quotas to maintain a price point of 3.1 cents per gram, how is it even remotely concievable that fast-growing marijuana, without such price supports and quotas, will maintain a $10-$12 per gram price?

That just doesn't make sense.


39 posted on 08/29/2005 12:45:32 PM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Gaffer

They already legalized it in California, but the Supreme Court decided that growing, harvesting, processing, and consuming a plant product entirely within the confines of a single state was "in or affecting interstate commerce" and thus subject to federal regulation.


40 posted on 08/29/2005 12:46:48 PM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: SteveMcKing
Sorry if pot-lovers must suffer for it, but whatever locks away criminals is a good thing.

I won't feel sorry for pot lovers until they realize that their criminal activity leads to other criminal activity that gets people shot an killed.

41 posted on 08/29/2005 12:53:57 PM PDT by Moonman62 (Federal creed: If it moves tax it. If it keeps moving regulate it. If it stops moving subsidize it)
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To: mvpel
Undoubtedly the price will fall some. BTW your price of $10-$12 per gram is overvalued by at least x2. It would be even lower for purchases of over .25oz. (so I'm told)
42 posted on 08/29/2005 1:12:00 PM PDT by SunTzuWu
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To: Moonman62

I don't think they want you to feel sorry for them. I think they want you and the cops to mind your own damn business and take care of something more important.


43 posted on 08/29/2005 1:12:14 PM PDT by bigsigh
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To: SunTzuWu

I think I was using a price graph that only went out to 2002 - it was graphed in constant 2002 dollars. Though you'd think that if the amount of pot seizures was going up and indicating a "victory" in Drug War parlance, the price would be going up as well, not dropping by half.


44 posted on 08/29/2005 1:14:11 PM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: freepatriot32

Cops have the best dope!


45 posted on 08/29/2005 1:14:27 PM PDT by WhiteGuy (Vote for gridlock - Make the elected personally liable for their wasteful spending)
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To: bigsigh

In other words, they don't want the law enforced, and they won't take responsibility for their actions.


46 posted on 08/29/2005 1:15:08 PM PDT by Moonman62 (Federal creed: If it moves tax it. If it keeps moving regulate it. If it stops moving subsidize it)
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To: Moonman62

They are not the only ones who don't want the law enforced. Those of us who don't like our tax money wasted by the government trying to stop people from getting high, while others can get intoxicated, want this hypocritical and wasteful failed government policies to stop. Those of you who want government to stop this type of behavior should donate more taxes so the rest of us can have our money used for something worthwhile.


47 posted on 08/29/2005 1:20:39 PM PDT by bigsigh
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To: Gaffer

I think they're too loaded in Sacramento to figure it out.


48 posted on 08/29/2005 1:21:35 PM PDT by bigsigh
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To: bigsigh

You are entitled to your political opinion, but pot users should either abide by the law, or accept the cosequences of breaking it, which includes the capital crimes of their suppliers.


49 posted on 08/29/2005 1:24:14 PM PDT by Moonman62 (Federal creed: If it moves tax it. If it keeps moving regulate it. If it stops moving subsidize it)
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To: mvpel; SunTzuWu
Mvpel says pot is far easier to grow and process than tobacco. I doubt that's true. Tobacco can be mechanically harvested. Marijuana has to be picked at just the right time to be at maximum potency and not all plants or even all parts of plants mature at the same time. Also, pot needs to be both dried and cured like tobacco to get rid of the green taste. Additionally, it needs to be manicured, the buds removed from the stems and the leaves growing from the buds trimmed. All of this is a labor intensive process. It would probably always be more expensive to produce than tobacco, not anywhere near several hundred times as expensive to produce, but it seems to me that it would always be more expensive to produce.

According to the government, it is estimated that in 2002 there were between 12,000 and 25,000 metric tons of marijuana available on the American market. This is after law enforcement seized all it seized that year and I think between state and federal law enforcement in the neighborhood of 2,500 metric tons were seized in 2002. Even though they seized that much, there were still apparently between 12,000 and 25,000 metric tons on the market. A metric ton is one million grams. Imagine the tax revenues that could be collected if this stuff were taxed at 30% or more like cigarettes are. Even at an average price of just $5.00 per gram, at 30% tax that would be between 18 billion and 37.5 billion dollars a year. Even if half the people grew their own or bought from illicit sources it would be between 9 billion and 18.79 billion.
50 posted on 08/29/2005 1:58:40 PM PDT by TKDietz
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