Intrigue Over Able Danger Grows

WTOP News ^ | Aug. 30, 2005

[Grampa Dave]

Below is the Yahoo search on Robert J. Lieberman

http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=Robert%20J.%20Lieberman

[An.American.Expatriate]

If I knew the answers to those, I would provide them. I don't.

But, as I have posted on other AD threads - once the lawyers (grrr) determined, rightly or wrongly, that AD was in violation of the FISA, EO 12333 and others, ANY person along the chain of command could have (and would have been required to) shut down AD and have the data collected destroyed (it was not legal to retain / disseminate such information)

[xzins]

If that is the law then it is an insane and probably in direct contradiction of the President's responsibility to protect the US.

The existence of the Spetznaz team does not disappear just because they connected with a complicit US citizen.

Turn the investigation of that citizen over to the FBI and continue tracking the Spetznaz. They are virtually unrelated events.

[Grampa Dave]

"Yes, but it was a great demonstration of how ... the power that modern computer technology with skilled personnel could turn up information.....and some folks maybe saw that as a serious threat....!!!!"

Look at what Freepers do with our home computers re evidence on the rats.

One can only imagine what showed up with these super computers with the Food for Oil Scam re elite rats getting their "share" of the illegal $'s.

Maybe this is why Wilson and Clarke are so hostile and trying to divert attention from what they did.

[river rat]

If by NOW, we haven't removed all the ridiculous roadblocks to investigating the presence and reach of enemies within the United States ------ then perhaps we need to consider further changes to the law, before a Police State or Martial Law become necessary.

Semper Fi

[gaspar]

Here is an article claiming that Eleanor Hill was the Staff Director for the House and Senate Intelligence Committees. If that is the case, Weldon doesn't have far to go to find a new person who should be grilled. See: http://www.prisonplanet.com/agent_cited_wtc_attack_ahead_of_911.htm

[tarheelswamprat]

What is forbidden is making the US citizen the target of military collection.

This is NOT correct. Replace the word citizen with person and you would be correct. It is a BIG difference! (for more info on US Persons, see Title 50 USC 1801!).

I'm not certain, but I believe there is a slight distinction or "nuance" in the law that you and the media spinners are ignoring: the law forbids DOD, CIA, etc. from conducting "domestic" intelligence investigations (i.e. within the country), but they are perfectly free to gather information on anyone, US Persons or otherwise, in "foreign" investigations. Much of the information gleaned on Atta and others came from their activities, meetings, and connections on overseas trips.

One of the keys points of contention of this whole matter is that the policy instituted by Jamie Gorelick, referred to as the Gorelick Wall, went beyond the actual requirements of the law. This problem was thoroughly explained, and protested, by US Attorney Mary Jo White well before 9/11.

The crucial questions are: why Gorelick insisted on raising the bar well beyond the legal requirements, why did the other agencies voluntarily submit to this illogical policy, and most importany of all, who told Gorelick to do this.

[getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL]

As Sally O'Malley would say with a kick..."I luv it! I luv it! I luv it!"

[Enchante]

It's a perfect catch-22: ABLE DANGER was not allowed to pursue such a project without "specific authorization" from the FBI, but they weren't allowed even to have one lousy meeting with the FBI to tell them why is was so critically important that this information be collected and then investigated (presumably by the FBI). Seems like both DOD and Justice were all tied in knots about doing anything against terrorists!

"The memorandum states that it is the current policy of DoD and the Department of Justice that U.S. military personnel, including active duty, Reserve Components and/or National Guard personnel will not collect evidence . . . unless specifically authorized by law enforcement and/or requested by the FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation] as the lead agency for crisis management. "

[bw17]

"...most importany of all, who told Gorelick to do this."

That's not the most important question. The most important question is "who is behind the coverup, and why?"

[An.American.Expatriate]

If that is the law then it is an insane and probably in direct contradiction of the President's responsibility to protect the US.

Welcome to the world of Military Intelligence!!

The existence of the Spetznaz team does not disappear just because they connected with a complicit US citizen.

Again - US Person!! And, you are correct. However, legally the investigation belongs to the FBI and NOT the military! Even if the Spetnatz team were targeting a military installation!! Overseas OTOH this would fall under MI jurisdiction.

Turn the investigation of that citizen over to the FBI and continue tracking the Spetznaz. They are virtually unrelated events.

Since you used the word complicit, the US Person is NOT unrelated.

[xzins]

We agree, RR. Let the military do its job and protect the nation.

[Soliton]

Reply from Donald Mancuso
Acting Inspector General,
Department of Defense
dated, December 1, 2000

[xzins]

I read someone last week who said that Gorelick raised the wall on instructions from the Clintonistas who wanted to prevent anyone from looking into their dealings with China and Chinese campaign contributors.

If the law prevented their looking, then there was no reason to fear.

[An.American.Expatriate]

I'm not certain, but I believe there is a slight distinction or "nuance" in the law that you and the media spinners are ignoring: the law forbids DOD, CIA, etc. from conducting "domestic" intelligence investigations (i.e. within the country), but they are perfectly free to gather information on anyone, US Persons or otherwise, in "foreign" investigations. Much of the information gleaned on Atta and others came from their activities, meetings, and connections on overseas trips.

2 points:
You are correct in stating that the military can not conduct "domestic" intelligence investigations (some exceptions exist, but that just muddies up the waters...)
You are incorrect in stating that the military is free to gather information on US Person abroad! This requires special authorizations and is often denied. Even NSA must get approval to conduct such operations from the AG!!

[sandydipper]

Atta could have called the FB&I on Sept. 10, 2001 and told them what he was gonna do the next day and they would have ignored him.

[Soliton]

Don Mancuso is now the head of security for US Airways in DC.

He was the guy who recommended Ken Bacon for prosecution regarding release of info from Linda Tripps personnel file.

[adam_az]

"Was the Able Danger program part of these Weapons of Mass Destruction - Civil Support Teams (WMD-CSTs)? Because if that's the case, then this is the smoking gun. Lieberman is on record stating that the WMD-CST mission definition and doctrine conflicted with law enforcement agencies' plans and prerogatives (evidence of the Gorelick wall!), and the program was dismantled."

Valerie Plame was a CIA analyst for WMD. Was she involved?

[oust the louse]

"The crucial questions are: why Gorelick insisted on raising the bar well beyond the legal requirements, why did the other agencies voluntarily submit to this illogical policy, and most importany of all, who told Gorelick to do this?"

Great questions but in a hearing with their like,the standard answer will be, "I can't recall".

[Rabin]

AAE, You seem to be a treasure trove of wisdom on the finer points of "domestic intelligence" investigations. Would you mind very much providing relevant references for these gems ( allegations ), for verification?