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FEMA is not a first responder - Don't be so quick to pillory the federal response in New Orleans
Pittsburgh Post Gazette ^ | Tuesday, September 06, 2005 | Craig Martelle

Posted on 09/06/2005 5:35:09 AM PDT by pittsburgh gop guy

Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder

Don't be so quick to pillory the federal response in New Orleans. Immediate emergency management is primarily a local and state responsibility

Tuesday, September 06, 2005

As one who has received training by FEMA in emergency management and also training by the Department of Defense in consequence management, I believe that the federal response in New Orleans needs clarification.

 
    Craig Martelle, retired as a major in the U.S. Marine Corps, lives in North Huntingdon. He recently launched the Strategic Outlook Institute, a public-policy organization.  
 

The key to emergency management starts at the local level and expands to the state level. Emergency planning generally does not include any federal guarantees, as there can only be limited ones from the federal level for any local plan. FEMA provides free training, education, assistance and respond in case of an emergency, but the local and state officials run their own emergency management program.

Prior development of an emergency plan, addressing all foreseeable contingencies, is the absolute requirement of the local government --and then they share that plan with the state emergency managers to ensure that the state authorities can provide necessary assets not available at the local level. Additionally, good planning will include applicable elements of the federal government (those located in the local area). These processes are well established, but are contingent upon the personal drive of both hired and elected officials at the local level.

I've reviewed the New Orleans emergency management plan. Here is an important section in the first paragraph.

"We coordinate all city departments and allied state and federal agencies which respond to citywide disasters and emergencies through the development and constant updating of an integrated multi-hazard plan. All requests for federal disaster assistance and federal funding subsequent to disaster declarations are also made through this office. Our authority is defined by the Louisiana Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act of 1993, Chapter 6 Section 709, Paragraph B, 'Each parish shall maintain a Disaster Agency which, except as otherwise provided under this act, has jurisdiction over and serves the entire parish.' "

Phil Coale, Associated Press
Flooded school buses in a lot, New Orleans, Sept. 1.
Click photo for larger image.

Check the plan -- the "we" in this case is the office of the mayor, Ray Nagin who was very quick and vocal about blaming everyone but his own office. A telling picture, at left, taken by The Associated Press on Sept. 1 and widely circulated on the Internet shows a school bus park, apparently filled to capacity with buses, under about four feet of water. If a mandatory evacuation was ordered, why weren't all the taxpayer-purchased buses used in the effort?

Who could have predicted the anarchy resulting as a consequence? The individuals who devolved into lawless animals embarrass the entirety of America. (I worked in a U.S. Embassy overseas for a couple years and I can imagine what foreign diplomats are thinking.) What societal factors would ever lead people to believe that this behavior was even remotely acceptable?

The folks in New Orleans who are perpetrating the violence and lawlessness are not that way because of low income or of race, but because they personally do not have any honor or commitment to higher ideals. The civil-rights leaders should be ashamed at playing the blame game.

The blame is on the individuals. The blame is on the society that allowed these individuals to develop the ideal that the individual is greater than the national pride he is destroying. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was very clear in her comments that she was offended at those who suggested the suffering in New Orleans was prolonged because of race.

As a retired Marine, I hang my head in shame to see my fellow Americans degenerate so far. I spent so many years in the Corps helping the citizens of other countries rise to a higher level of personal responsibility to ensure that in case of emergency, anarchy did not necessarily follow. When people are held to a higher standard of personal responsibility and they accept that, then they will do the right thing when the time comes.

It seems that the mayor of New Orleans is leading the effort in not taking responsibility for his actions. The emergency managers for the state of Louisiana do not have much to say either. The failure in the first 48 hours to provide direction for survivors is theirs to live with. When FEMA was able to take over, it started out behind and had to develop its plan on the fly. Now the federal government has established priorities -- rescue the stranded, evacuate the city, flow in resources and fix the levee. It appears that now there is a plan and it is being systematically executed.

Hurricane Katrina was a national tragedy -- not just in the number of lives lost or the amount of physical damage, but also in the failure of people to do what is right when no one is looking.


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: cary; fema; firstresponders; hurricane; katrina; katrinafailures; neworleans; relief
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To: kabar
Some Reps would have to join with the Dems to impeach. Not going to happen

ROTFLOL!!!!!

201 posted on 09/06/2005 10:09:28 AM PDT by Just A Nobody (I - LOVE - my attitude problem !)
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To: kabar
No, they do not. What about that poll someone did who placed the blame where it should have gone--Nagin and Blanko?
202 posted on 09/06/2005 10:10:42 AM PDT by MamaB (mom to an angel)
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To: isthisnickcool

Blanco should read Blanko. If her plan was already in place, then it went according to her plan but it was a really bad plan.


203 posted on 09/06/2005 10:12:06 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: kabar
You insist on blaming the federal government. What did Nagin and Blanko do to get their own people to safety?
204 posted on 09/06/2005 10:12:46 AM PDT by MamaB (mom to an angel)
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To: shhrubbery!

off topic for a sec. How's Laura I. doing?


205 posted on 09/06/2005 10:12:57 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: pittsburgh gop guy

How DARE you challenge the MSM conventional wisdom.

I mean look at the historic precedents. Earthquake in SF, FEMA was there, uh... OK bad example. Eathquake in LA, FEMA was there in, umm, errr.. OK another bad example. Hurricane Andrew, FEMA right on the spot after umm, errrr.. let's try again. Violence, riots and looting in Los Angeles, FEMA and the feds were umm, err, uhhh...

Only in the pea brains of the Hate Bush crowd (which is most of the MSM) is an immediate Federal Response required and possible.


206 posted on 09/06/2005 10:14:22 AM PDT by Shazbot29 (muhammed was the most evil person ever to live. May he burn in hell forever)
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To: kabar

Sure, they have to blame someone instead of their own politicians. Even that young man had more common sense than those politicians.


207 posted on 09/06/2005 10:15:30 AM PDT by MamaB (mom to an angel)
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To: Howlin
Let's do; we have laws and regulations for a reason; because we've done it over and over on the east coast. And the way it's done it works.

You don't see any East coast governors standing around waiting to hear from the White House or FEMA to decide what to do to save their state.

And you sure as hell don't catch East Coast governors not returning the president's phone calls for 24 hours.

What's your point? We allow the citizens to suffer and die because of the incompetency of the governor and local authorities?

If you would give us your phone number, we can call you later in the week and you can be in charge of the next storm that's coming. I'm sure you'd do a perfect job.

I am sure I could do a better job than Blanco and Nagin. I ran and/or assisted several evacuations overseas and written evacuation and emergency plans. Your sarcasm is misplaced.

You all need to lighten up.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

208 posted on 09/06/2005 10:16:50 AM PDT by kabar
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To: jackv

That poster just wants to argue. He/she does not get the fact that the local politicians were the ones to get people out of town.


209 posted on 09/06/2005 10:17:18 AM PDT by MamaB (mom to an angel)
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To: NCLaw441
Whatever idiot sent people to the Convention Center should be fired. That's where lots of wrongful deaths occurred. It gave Geraldo time to get there to cry on my tv. FEMA and Homeland Security should have watched tv once in awhile to see that Americans were dehydrating, starving, having heatstroke, diabetic shock, heart attacks and were also being raped.

Michael Brown said he didn't know about "the convention center". He's the only person in America who didn't know.

210 posted on 09/06/2005 10:17:18 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: goldstategop
When it came to character, local and state authorities in LA fell short of what was needed.

They certainly were not up to the standard of leadership that California Governor Pete Wilson and Los Angeles Mayor, Richard, "The RINO", Riorden exhibited after the Northridge earthquake in the '90's. In all fairness, Katrina was much larger than the earthquake, but Gov. Blanco and the Mayor of New Orleans had plenty of warning, not so for Pete and Dick.

211 posted on 09/06/2005 10:17:50 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: MamaB
You insist on blaming the federal government. What did Nagin and Blanko do to get their own people to safety?

You obviously have not read all of my posts on this thread. I assign most of the blame to Nagin and Blanco. However, I don't hold the Feds blameless for their initial, bleated response to NO.

212 posted on 09/06/2005 10:20:07 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

Our city has disaster plans and they are practiced at times just to make sure people know what to do in one. Why wasn't this done in NO? The politicians were just too dumb to care about their own citizens.


213 posted on 09/06/2005 10:20:14 AM PDT by MamaB (mom to an angel)
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To: kabar
"FEMA stopped private individuals from going in with boats to save people."

I, personally had secured a flat bottomed boat, extra fuel and several friends to help in search and rescue the day after the storm hit. The state police, NOT FEMA, turned us away because they could not guarantee our safety due to "shots being fired"...

TS
214 posted on 09/06/2005 10:20:35 AM PDT by 30 something american (never argue with idiots, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience)
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To: MamaB

Blanko and Nagin, are they still speaking? They are to blame but the feds compounded the problem. Something this huge is not the time for restraint. The federal government is charged with protecting its citizens. It's in the Constitution. I think there were failures at many levels. Living in a hurricane prone area and while we are at war, I'm getting my own supplies and maybe everyone in hurricane prone areas need to take survival classes. However, I don't live in a bowl.


215 posted on 09/06/2005 10:22:22 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: kabar

"...I do know that the Feds could have alleviated the situations at the Convention Center and the Superdome sooner..."

WoW! Maybe you should work for the DOD and let them know how a few blackhawks can be loaded with enough supplies for thousands. The chaos that would have ensued had they not gone in with an overwhelming force, like they did on Friday via a ground convoy, would have been terrible and cost far more lives than the few that may have perished in the interim.

And everyone is getting on FEMA's case over the convention center - and that they didn't know about it. My question is: Who the hell set that shelter up? Was it the American Red Cross - ARC - they usually do the mass care ESF (Emergency Support Function) in most municipal EOPs (Emergency Operations Plans). Was it the municipal government? Someone set it up and then realized the bad situation and got the hell out of there. It was either ARC or the municipal governement (ARC will not set up shelters WITHOUT security present) - or a combo of both. EITHER WAY - whoever opened it got the hell out of there fast - and left people there.

And the one thing that I can guarantee: It was not, repeat, NOT FEMA that set it up as a mass care center.

But it is all Bush's fault - I keep forgetting.


216 posted on 09/06/2005 10:22:48 AM PDT by pittsburgh gop guy (Be not afraid...)
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To: MamaB

Politicians are masters of the coverup. The problem is that as the water recedes, a coverup is not possible in this instance.


217 posted on 09/06/2005 10:24:08 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: NCLaw441
Yes, they could have, just not legally. Once the threshold of requiring the law to be upheld is crossed, all bets are off. When a federal agency can override those in lawful control, the risks are more enormous than a CAT 5 hurricane ever could be.

That's the crux of the matter. In this case, I say legalisms and laws be damned. Save lives and alleviate suffering. Just as we praise the 18 year old who broke the law and commandeered a school bus to save himself and others, we need to assist our fellow citizens in the name of morality and humanity.

218 posted on 09/06/2005 10:25:44 AM PDT by kabar
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To: zek157
The idea of paid vacations was raised by both Mayor C. Ray Nagin and senior police officials who said that their forces were exhausted and traumatized and that the arrival of the National Guard had made way for the officers to be relieved. AFTER ONLY 6 OR 7 DAYS!

Gee, I wonder if this moroon will ever send these guys on a MUCH NEEDED rest and relaxation ........

WASHINGTON-- Most of the 2,800 Louisiana National Guard soldiers who are returning home early from their Iraq mission intend to join in the Hurricane Katrina relief effort, their commander said Monday.

"The people of Louisiana have been worrying about us these past 12 months; now we are worried about them," said Brig. Gen. John Basilica Jr., commander of the 256th Brigade Combat Team of the Louisiana National Guard.

219 posted on 09/06/2005 10:26:27 AM PDT by Just A Nobody (I - LOVE - my attitude problem !)
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To: pittsburgh gop guy

Rush just read most of this article on the air.


220 posted on 09/06/2005 10:29:50 AM PDT by gitmo (Thanks, Mel. I needed that.)
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To: kabar

Yes. They know they live in a "possible" disaster area. For instance, this city had a large flood several years ago near where we live. We did not depend on the national government to get things done. The churches took over feeding the people in that area. They brought chainsaws to cut trees into smaller pieces so they could be moved. We depended on our neighbors to help us. The city bought out houses that were flooded and widened the drainage creek to make sure it would not happen again. We are in a tornado zone but again, we depend on our neighbors. Sure the Salvation Army and Red Cross come in but even that took a few days but neighbors helped care for the people in the area that was hit.


221 posted on 09/06/2005 10:31:53 AM PDT by MamaB (mom to an angel)
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To: floriduh voter

Read my post - #216.

FEMA did not set up the convention center as a mass care center. Did not happen. New Orleans or ARC did - and then abandonded it. How the hell is FEMA supposed to know everything? Yes - reporters went there and shot footage, but guess what people that work for FEMA were: DOING WORK and not watching tv. Or - should FEMA employ people to just watch tv. ANd they would have to employ A LOT of people because of all the coverage. Gee - wouldn't it be better to have FEMA employees actually working on getting aid to the people they do know about?

The failure at the convention center was a local one. Once it was brought to FEMA's attention, the clock was ticking on how long it took the feds to get aid there and the place evacuated. If they knew about it and did nothing, then they can be blamed, but it is very legitimate that they may not have known about it until Thursday. Then they had to figure out a way to get massive quantities of aid there. If they knew about it for several days and did nothing, blast them for it - but if they found out about it on Thursday and arrived to the rescue on Friday, not too bad in my book. Yeah, Thursday night would have been nice, maybe early Friday morning, but better to do it with the right number of troops and supplies.

GEEZ - some on here are forgetting that the feds don't know everything about everything (and they know nothing about a lot of things). If you think that someone at FEMA knows where you will go to if you are evacuated from your home - you need to check into Disneyland full-time. FEMA does not know - and for them to know would take a lot more employees than what they have - and what you would be happy to pay in taxes to support.


222 posted on 09/06/2005 10:33:51 AM PDT by pittsburgh gop guy (Be not afraid...)
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To: pittsburgh gop guy

from the DHS's own website:

"Response -- Lead, manage and coordinate the national response to acts of terrorism, natural disasters, or other emergencies."

Perhaps we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves here. The responsibility for leading, managing, AND coordinating is in the lap of the DHS (which owns FEMA).

Let's not look silly defending FEMA, PLEASE!!!!


223 posted on 09/06/2005 10:34:26 AM PDT by Doug2464
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To: pittsburgh gop guy
WoW! Maybe you should work for the DOD and let them know how a few blackhawks can be loaded with enough supplies for thousands. The chaos that would have ensued had they not gone in with an overwhelming force, like they did on Friday via a ground convoy, would have been terrible and cost far more lives than the few that may have perished in the interim.

Oh, come now. I served almost eight years in the military as a Supply Officer. I have some idea as to capabilities and logistics. We could have ferried in enough people with the helicopter assets on hand to maintain order and security until the convoys came in. You don't need "overwhelming force." Enough supplies could have been sent in by chopper to take care of the most needy.

And everyone is getting on FEMA's case over the convention center - and that they didn't know about it. My question is: Who the hell set that shelter up?

Some people just gravitated there. I assume the city used it previously. Certainly FEMA had nothiung to do with it nor did they have anything to do with the Superdome. Nagin is totally responsible for the arrangements.

224 posted on 09/06/2005 10:35:19 AM PDT by kabar
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To: PhiKapMom

Trent Lott now wants to punch PRESIDENT Bush??? How did I miss that?


225 posted on 09/06/2005 10:35:19 AM PDT by Just A Nobody (I - LOVE - my attitude problem !)
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To: kabar
Does that same rationale apply to folks who build there homes on fault lines, e.g., San Andrreas fault?

Yes, it does. The same goes for people who build on flood plains.

If you build your house in an area that is prone to some sort of cataclysmic event, you shouldn't be surprised when that event occurs. There's nothing wrong with building/living there, you just have to be ready to deal with the hand mother natures deals. And if something does happen, it's not "Bush's Fault."

It is more difficult to make those comments before the event happened. I did say the Sunday morning that Nagin declared a mandatory evacutation, that we should have sent in military aircraft to evacuate people.

How many military aircraft would it have taken to airlift 100,000 people? You want this done in less than 24 hours? Heck, probably less than 12 hours since it would have been too dangerous to fly as the hurricane came closer. So, even if the planes had been requested at 0600 Sunday, how many flights do you think could have gotten in and out of NO in 12 hours? (I know, every life saved is valuable but it's still not the answer to the problem)

226 posted on 09/06/2005 10:35:45 AM PDT by gruffwolf (Katrina - didn't blow as hard as the liberal left.)
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To: isthisnickcool
I'm listening to Blanco on FOX right now. She is not directly answering some questions by slightly changing the subject.

I saw that, and about 45 minutes later she was interviewed (split screen unlike FOX which was just phone, so you could see her squirm)by CNN's Soledad O'Brien.

Amazingly, Soledad was much tougher and direct with her than FOX.

227 posted on 09/06/2005 10:36:25 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (Cindy, ya shoulda stuck with "offshore drilling" as your cause)
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To: kabar

You said: That's the crux of the matter. In this case, I say legalisms and laws be damned. Save lives and alleviate suffering. Just as we praise the 18 year old who broke the law and commandeered a school bus to save himself and others, we need to assist our fellow citizens in the name of morality and humanity.
***
We also aren't going to arrest those who may have "looted" food, water and necessities in this emergency, and I do understand your point. The problem is that, if what you suggest were to become precedent, the feds would be able to act whenever they thought it was in the best interest of those being served. Someone earlier in the thread asked that you state how this concept you support would be limited, and you did not directly respond. How about fed action to forcibly close abortion mills? (But it does sound tempting.) Some religious organizations don't believe in blood transfusions, perhaps the army should come in and close the doors of such religious practitioners. It would almost certainly save lives. How about federal intervention on our highways to slow down traffic? Sure, some of these may sound silly to you, but how do we define the paramater for ignoring state officials and substituting federal agencies? This is a very thorny problem, even in the face of what APPREARS to have been a tardy federal response.


228 posted on 09/06/2005 10:37:14 AM PDT by NCLaw441
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To: gitmo

"Rush just read most of this article on the air."

That's cool. Although we should have learned from the Rathergate affair last year - let no one doubt that FreeRepublic has an impact. I am pretty sure that Rush or one of his minions saw the article here - I mean, who reads the Pittsburgh Post Gazette? (Other than me and some other ex-pats).

I also saw it posted on NRO - The Corner by KLO. I would bet she saw it on here too.

Wish I had written it.


229 posted on 09/06/2005 10:37:45 AM PDT by pittsburgh gop guy (Be not afraid...)
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To: gruffwolf
,i>If you build your house in an area that is prone to some sort of cataclysmic event, you shouldn't be surprised when that event occurs. There's nothing wrong with building/living there, you just have to be ready to deal with the hand mother natures deals. And if something does happen, it's not "Bush's Fault."

So what should our response be if SF gets hit by the big one? Call them idiots for living there and refuse any federal assistance? There are very few places in this country that are immune from natural disasters. Most of our major citites are built on rivers and oceans. Tornados and earthquakes zones are all over the country.

How many military aircraft would it have taken to airlift 100,000 people? You want this done in less than 24 hours? Heck, probably less than 12 hours since it would have been too dangerous to fly as the hurricane came closer. So, even if the planes had been requested at 0600 Sunday, how many flights do you think could have gotten in and out of NO in 12 hours? (I know, every life saved is valuable but it's still not the answer to the problem)

We could have evacuated the hospitals, old age homes, and children.

230 posted on 09/06/2005 10:42:47 AM PDT by kabar
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To: defconw
The Mayor is wrong, in the Constitution of the United States, the Federal Government can not enter and take over anything unless the Governor allows it. She did not! Barbour and Riley asked the Feds in BEFORE the storm hit.

Finally! Thank you for this post ... I am STUNNED at the ignorance of just how things work in this country by so many in the media, the general public, even a few on these BBS sites.

231 posted on 09/06/2005 10:44:32 AM PDT by MozarkDawg
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To: kabar
We allow the citizens to suffer and die because of the incompetency of the governor and local authorities?

Are you getting your talking points from Jesse Jackson?

This was a storm of Biblical proportions; people were going to die, regardless of how soon the aid got there; and you cannot save people who don't have the sense or will to save themselves.

Just because you wrote some disaster plans doesn't mean you could implement them without anything going wrong.

Maybe you could put them up here for us all to go over with a find tooth comb; I'm sure some on here could find something wrong with what you did.

232 posted on 09/06/2005 10:46:50 AM PDT by Howlin (Have you check in on this thread: FYI: Hurricane Katrina Freeper SIGN IN Thread)
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To: kabar
When you have an unprecedented disaster involving 90,000 square miles involving millions of people across several states, the Federal Government must take the lead. Damn the uproar if it means lives will be saved. That is what leadership is all about.

Da** that pesky Constitution of the United States, the laws on the books ... what a nuisiance. [/sarc]

233 posted on 09/06/2005 10:49:35 AM PDT by MozarkDawg
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To: pittsburgh gop guy

I heard an interview on FOX-NEWS with a retired Louisiana official who said that the department/association responsible for maintaining the levees had used the money to buy a casino and to invest in each others' businesses rather than strengthen the levees. I'm sorry that I didn't note the name, but I hope this info comes out on the Internet somewhere.


234 posted on 09/06/2005 10:51:11 AM PDT by rimtop56
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To: zek157

I know your "how many years" was a rhetorical question, but the last storm to really slam New Orleans was Betsy in 1965. And not surprisingly, it destroyed the same area that was first hit in Katrina--the Lower Ninth Ward.

}:-)4


235 posted on 09/06/2005 10:57:49 AM PDT by Moose4 (Richmond, Virginia, where our motto is "Will Riot For Cheap Laptops")
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To: kabar
It Should be SOP for the feds to immediately insert military forces, guns blazing at lawbreakers, under the force of Martial Law, into a disaster area Immediately because civil disturbances and looting are assured. (We have had this lesson for the last 40 years and ignore it repeatedly.) The authority for this comes from:

Section. 4.

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

This was eventually carried out in NOLA, too late to prevent a lot of criminality. First secure the area, next search and rescue. This was done backwards.
236 posted on 09/06/2005 10:59:30 AM PDT by aspiring.hillbilly (!...The Confederate States of America rises again...!)
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To: kabar
You obviously have not read all of my posts on this thread. I assign most of the blame to Nagin and Blanco. However, I don't hold the Feds blameless for their initial, bleated response to NO.

I might be inclined to agree with you. If you would phrase the last part ('Fed blameless') this way:

The Feds share some responsibility for failing to recognize, or even believe, the complete incompetence of the local and State 'leaders' sooner.

Just a thought process I'm working through. I might be wrong.

237 posted on 09/06/2005 10:59:39 AM PDT by invoman
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To: NCLaw441
We also aren't going to arrest those who may have "looted" food, water and necessities in this emergency, and I do understand your point. The problem is that, if what you suggest were to become precedent, the feds would be able to act whenever they thought it was in the best interest of those being served.

We can worry about setting precedents later. Congress, the MSM, university professors, and the rest of the elites can discuss it ad nauseum after lives are saved and order established.

Someone earlier in the thread asked that you state how this concept you support would be limited, and you did not directly respond. How about fed action to forcibly close abortion mills? (But it does sound tempting.) Some religious organizations don't believe in blood transfusions, perhaps the army should come in and close the doors of such religious practitioners. It would almost certainly save lives. How about federal intervention on our highways to slow down traffic? Sure, some of these may sound silly to you, but how do we define the paramater for ignoring state officials and substituting federal agencies? This is a very thorny problem, even in the face of what APPREARS to have been a tardy federal response.

You can set up all the what-ifs you want and make all kinds of linkages to other issues. The bottom line is that there is an ongoing crisis of historic proportions involving millions of Americans. Sometimes people have to make hard and immediate decisions based on the circumstances. Saving lives trumps bureaucratic red tape.

238 posted on 09/06/2005 11:00:33 AM PDT by kabar
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To: leadpencil1

ping


239 posted on 09/06/2005 11:00:44 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough
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To: kabar
There is a consensus that the Feds could have done a better job initially.

Where'd you find that 'consensus'?

240 posted on 09/06/2005 11:01:35 AM PDT by polymuser
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To: invoman

I'll buy that, but there were some "paperwork" impediments that hampered an immediate response once the levees had broken.


241 posted on 09/06/2005 11:02:37 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

"GWB would have been lionized by the American people if he had taken this action. Besides, GWB is not running again for election."

Bush would have been impeached, rightfully so, for violating the Constitution he is sworn to protect and defend.


242 posted on 09/06/2005 11:03:32 AM PDT by rightinthemiddle (Free Speech is a Right. Being Wrong is Just...Wrong.)
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To: kabar
So what should our response be if SF gets hit by the big one? Call them idiots for living there and refuse any federal assistance? There are very few places in this country that are immune from natural disasters. Most of our major citites are built on rivers and oceans. Tornados and earthquakes zones are all over the country.

Do you think the city of San Francisco and the State of California have a plan ready to execute if there's a massive earthquake? What should FEMA do, pre-position people, equipment, and food in case there's an earthquake tomorrow?

To tell you the truth, the thought of my tax money being used to rebuild NO sickens me. Hundreds of millions of dollars spent to rebuild a city that will still be 5+ feet under sea level. Why should taxpayers pay for that folly?

Now, tell me about my civic duty and how the Federal Government is responsible for making sure everyone gets what they want.

We could have evacuated the hospitals, old age homes, and children.

That should have been done anyway. In your scenario, who would have supplied the manpower to make all this happen in the 12 hour window we talked about in my last post? More military folks? The local LEO's?

Again, it's easy to look back and criticize, Kerry did a lot of that during the election, but it's hard to look at the realities of a situation and act in the best possible manner.

And if you were in the Supply and Logistics business for 8 years, you know how hard it is to get things moving quickly. Unless your unit is a quick reaction force, you aren't going anywhere in 24 hours.

243 posted on 09/06/2005 11:07:35 AM PDT by gruffwolf (Katrina - didn't blow as hard as the liberal left.)
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To: kabar
Rightly or wrongly, the public believes the buck stops in the WH.

Perhaps the "minority" of the public believes that, and they would like to thank you for fighting so diligently to promote this wrong thinking.

244 posted on 09/06/2005 11:07:47 AM PDT by Just A Nobody (I - LOVE - my attitude problem !)
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To: cake_crumb
These processes are well established, but are contingent upon the personal drive of both hired and elected officials at the local level.

So, we need to determine just what their personal drive was, and to replicate their pro/con list for evacuating all of N.O. and the possible political ramifications.

245 posted on 09/06/2005 11:07:56 AM PDT by polymuser
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To: pittsburgh gop guy

Rediculous!!!

No municipality can adequately plan for a disaster the scope of what New Orleans went through. It doesn't have the resources.

Such planning must occur at the state and/or federal level.


There are several obvious lessons:


246 posted on 09/06/2005 11:07:58 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: pittsburgh gop guy

Tell that to Sean Hannity.


247 posted on 09/06/2005 11:10:03 AM PDT by OldFriend (MAJ. TAMMY DUCKWORTH ~ A NATIONAL TREASURE)
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To: OldFriend

I'm loving all these people that are shooting their mouths off without having the facts.


248 posted on 09/06/2005 11:10:55 AM PDT by Howlin (Have you check in on this thread: FYI: Hurricane Katrina Freeper SIGN IN Thread)
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To: pittsburgh gop guy

Marking


249 posted on 09/06/2005 11:25:57 AM PDT by djreece ("... Until He leads justice to victory." Matt. 12:20c)
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To: MamaB

Yes I believe you are right.
Good grief!!! And the REASON the feds were a bit slow was because Blanco kept saying they were fine. Didn't need them. The locals were the ones feeding the feds the information to go on.
I am sick of trying to explain it to someone who ignores all reason.


250 posted on 09/06/2005 11:28:29 AM PDT by jackv
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