Posted on 09/12/2005 9:35:47 AM PDT by StuLongIsland
You need to think a little less simplistically. Whether it was him you saw, it could still have been made in 2001.
Did you see any VISUAL reference or proof that the tape was made anytime after November or December 2001? If not, there's no firm reason to believe it was made after then. The CIA could "authenticate" it for intelligence gathering reasons.
If that's the case, then Bin Laden's the best political hack of them all. You're saying he made a video in 2001, commenting on an election three years off, in the unlikely event he'd be killed at Tora Bora? If that's the case, maybe Tim Russert died in 1972, but filmed all his interviews in advance...
>>commenting on an election <<
Do you know Arabic, Farsi, or whatever he speaks? Do you have access to a voice print analysis machine, and did you run your own tests?
Unless you show VISUAL proof of date, everything else can be dubbed and can be done so fairly easily.
As I stated, don't think so simplistically. I know what the CIA SAID, and what others have said about the tape. But they could be putting out false information for their own reasons.
Certainly you make sense. The fact remains that at least one son and other members of Bin Ladin's family were given refuge in Iran, as were other members of his entourage.
You are probably right, though, that Iran could not give refuge to Bin Ladin himself. That doesn't mean that he isn't in Iranian territory. Iran has made it a practice not to enforce the border where Al Qaeda is concerned (those Al Qaeda crossing from Afghanistan to Iraq were given safe passage).
Thats what makes the other poster's reference to Baluchistan a good guess; Baluchistan covers territory in three countries; Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iran, and none of the three countries completely controls that area.
I've done a number of posts on this subject, check out the whole thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1481416/replies?c=1
Also, the Baloch are semitic sunni arabs, Khaleed sheikh Muhammed and Ramzi bin alshibh were Baloch. Iranian Balochistan is fairly autonomous and bin Laden was in Ladeen, Iran after Tora Bora. At least two of his sons are in Iran, smuggling, and training Baloch.
As a matter of fact, I am conversant in Syrian Arabic.
Unless you show VISUAL proof of date, everything else can be dubbed and can be done so fairly easily.
If Al Qaeda can dub so well, why can't Hollywood?
But they could be putting out false information for their own reasons.
So the United State Government is lying, because, like totally that huge like military industrial complex man, dude it needs feeding. Are you sure you're on the right website?
>>I am conversant in Syrian Arabic<<
Great. Is that what he spoke on the tape? One source says there are 8 languages spoken in Pakistan alone (where, if he truly is alive, he's probably spent some time in the last 4 years).
>>If Al Qaeda can dub so well, why can't Hollywood?<<
I can get 2 13 year olds with a $1,000 camcorder, a computer, and one or two of about 13 different software packages that can tape me and have me speaking French, which I don't speak. With more sophisticated equipment and help from a college student, they might get the tape to pass a rudimentary print test for my voice. That MIGHT be pushing it, but there's no doubt that 2 trained professionals could do it without trying.
There are hardware and software devices out there that, if you can sing on key, they can make your voice sound fairly decent in real time. Too bad few current people with recording contracts use them!
>>So the United State Government is lying<<
Dude, do you really believe that if it was in our best strategic interest to either keep him alive, or make our enemies think we think he's alive (or even convince them ourselves that he is alive), that the CIA wouldn't authenticate a tape it either knows to be false or can't make a conclusive determination one way or another?
The last thing the CIA is going to do is come out when any tape is release and say, "we do not know for sure." They may say the first day, "we are looking into it," but after some time, they will likely authenticate it. It isn't a matter of lying ala Bill Clinton and the RAT party. It is a matter of national security, and I would rather them authenticate something if they feel its in our country's best interests to do so. However, I feel free to remain skeptical. You, apparantly, on the other hand can be sold anything.
>>Are you sure you're on the right website?<<
I've been here a hell of a lot longer than you have and I'll be here a long time after you leave.
He spoke Saudi Arabic, which I can understand.
One source says there are 8 languages spoken in Pakistan alone (where, if he truly is alive, he's probably spent some time in the last 4 years).
Non sequitur. Bin Laden doesn't issue tapes in Urdu.
That MIGHT be pushing it, but there's no doubt that 2 trained professionals could do it without trying.
Again, if that's so, maybe you should let Hollywood know, because their current dubbing operations really stink. I'm sure you could synch a recording to a video, but you can't synch a recording of one guy saying one thing to a video of another guy saying something completely different.
I've been here a hell of a lot longer than you have and I'll be here a long time after you leave.
That may well be. Are you employed?
>>but you can't synch a recording of one guy saying one thing to a video of another guy saying something completely different.<<
This is utter nonsenese. I'VE SEEN IT DONE WELL! Hell, its been done for years, varying qualities. Ever seen Bruce Lee (or other cheap martial arts) movies?
>>Are you employed?<<
Ah, let's see. If you count both a vocation and avocations, I do about 6 different things professionally. And you?
I have indeed. And they're quite obviously dubbed to anyone with even a reptillian visual cortex -- the mouth just doesn't move right.
I do about 6 different things professionally.
I see, a handyman.
>>a handyman.<<
If that's an attempted insult, its pretty bush league. I'm not in the habit of comparing resumes, but when I do, its usually a downer for the other party.
Though, I will admit you've got me on languages! And, incidentally, even though I wouldn't dare charge for it, I can be pretty handy with tools and fixing things, if needed. I helped a client sheetrock, tape and bed a wall about 8 months ago. But since I'd rather litigate commercial lawsuits than do that, I'll stick with what I do best.
"Caves are tough to attack. People are hard to kill externally."
I am late to this thread. But my recollection is that we did not have a lot of boots on the ground at the time. There were Special Forces teams and other SOC personnel. But not large numbers of people. There was also some troops from the 10th Mountain Division, which I think were a rapid reaction force. There were huge logistical obstacles involved in deploying and sustaining combat commands into Afghanistan quickly. I don't think we had the option to make Tora Bora an all-U.S. or even mostly-U.S. operation.
Even so, we almost got them thanks to some SAS Brits that refused to work/share intel with the locals.
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