Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: betty boop
The lesson to be learned from that experience is that organized churches that bend the Truth of God to the exigencies of the sociopolitical Zeitgeist of an age are selling out the legacy that God intends for man.

Martin Luther? His actions -- and those of like pursasion both before and after him -- could be said to have bent "...the Truth of God to the exigencies of the sociopolitical Zeitgeist.." of the age; most certainly to the RC point of view.

===============

...envisioned an ultimately "**churchless Christianity" -- as the only means of escape for the spiritual life of man from the libido dominandi of the self-selected and self-divinized "masters of mankind" that emerged with a vengeance in the middle of the last century and thereafter, and unto our own day.

IMHO you are basing your declaration,

1)The idea that church -- both the physical building and congregation -- are simply a convenient assembly place for worship of the Divine. That it is not -- or should not be -- needed for the true believers.But while this may be good theory it is, I'm afraid, rather bad psychology. Given how long both have been in existence, both established places of worship, and the willingness of men to assemble, serve as proof to the fact that they both have a profound effect of the human spirit (the Divine) and psyche (the human). It touches a deep, needful cord in us.

[** I would direct your attention to the late 17th c. Quietism based in the Convent Saint-Cyr, near Paris, as an example of "churchless Christianity".]

98 posted on 09/20/2005 8:28:49 PM PDT by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies ]


To: yankeedame; Alamo-Girl; Amos the Prophet; xzins; joanie-f
But while this may be good theory it is, I'm afraid, rather bad psychology.

I think we may be building a mountain out of a molehill here, yankeedame. Theory can never trump the good order and salvation of souls. "Even though" an RC by theology, I find Martin Luther to have been a remarkably God-chosen and faithful man, right down to the very core of his being.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Reformed Church is not big on saints. The Catholic tradition is otherwise. And so I would say there ought to be a St. Martin Luther.... For his faith, for his love, for his fides quaerens intellectus, his faith in search of reason, of eternal Truth.

You wrote: "The idea that church -- both the physical building and congregation -- are simply a convenient assembly place for worship of the Divine. That it is not -- or should not be -- needed for the true believers.But while this may be good theory it is, I'm afraid, rather bad psychology."

There is great wisdom in your observation, yankeedame. Plato insisted that the people should not be led in revolt from even such as the Olympian gods (whom he personally, apparently did not hold in high repute); because once a man has lost the "customary" god, that doesn't necessarily mean he is soon going to find "a better god." Maybe he just loses God altogether. Which is disastrous -- for him, and at the end of the day, maybe also for the society of which he is a participant.

But I didn't at all mean to suggest any such thing. As my dear sister Alamo-Girl says, the Epistles of Paul and John's Apocalypse speak of seven different churches, in terms of praise and blame. It's as if God presents Himself to the human mind and soul through the medium of a seven-facted gemstone (the various churches). When we pray to Him, it is generally through one of the seven facets. And regardless of which facet one is viewing through/praying through, it is still one Truth, one Light, one God. And it is addressed to One God, Father, Son, and Spirit.

As for Deitrich Bonhoeffer's "Churchless Chrisitianity": By no means do I interpret him as saying he wants to establish some kind of new "innovative" sect. You have to put yourself in his historical shoes, and experience how disturbing, shocking, it was for him to see Hitler "commandeer" the German Church into service of the "Fatherland." In despair at times (presumably, since he spent a whole lot of time incarcerated by the Reich under exacrable conditions, and ended up murdered by it for his Witness), Bonhoeffer in his suffering was (perhaps) given a salvific vision, that the love and grace and light of God would continue to be radiated unto mankind, whether there be church buildings, or even a formal priesthood, or no. For when push comes to shove, Jesus Christ is our priest, our confessor -- and our ultimate judge.

If I were about to be executed for confessing to God's Truth, I'm sure I would find that a deeply comforting and consoling Word....

In the love and peace of Christ.

101 posted on 09/20/2005 9:21:33 PM PDT by betty boop (Nature loves to hide. -- Heraclitus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies ]

To: yankeedame; betty boop
Perhaps the true meaning of the word, 'worship' should be re-discovered.

I think it is more closely akin to 'working for good' than it does assembling together to rejoice and give praise, the latter being more like a coffee break from the true work.

104 posted on 09/21/2005 8:45:26 AM PDT by Eastbound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson