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To: Diamond
In the absence of an absolute, transcendent ethic there is no evil or good in the first place, only personal preference;

I've been trying to think of a single instance of a successful religion or moral system that sold itself to its followers by holding out the hope of an eventual reward of poverty, pain, loneliness, degradation, regret, and death.

Can you think of any? Doesn't the question itself seem absurd? I say it's axiomatic that the purpose of morality is to enhance our lives. Any discussion of morality kind of falls apart at the start without that a priori assumption. Any motivation to even worry about such questions in the first place falls apart at the start without it.

133 posted on 09/21/2005 11:55:02 AM PDT by jennyp (WHAT I'M READING NOW: Seeing What's Next by Christensen, et.al.)
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To: jennyp
I've been trying to think of a single instance of a successful religion or moral system that sold itself to its followers by holding out the hope of an eventual reward of poverty, pain, loneliness, degradation, regret, and death.

Morality = Success?

"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."

Nihlism is kind of hard to sell, you're right about that. People just don't like it, even if it is the logical conclustion that flows from their premises. Morality does help enhance our lives, but that's not what morality is, and it does not explain some of its core elements or account for its existence.

I say it's axiomatic that the purpose of morality is to enhance our lives. Any discussion of morality kind of falls apart at the start without that a priori assumption. Any motivation to even worry about such questions in the first place falls apart at the start without it.

What command of the universe creates a moral obligation to enhance our lives? (whatever "enhancing life" means - what if it suits one caveman's purpose to kill another caveman in cold blood if that will "enhance the former's life"? Is there anything radically wrong with that?) How can Mindless, impersonal Evolution produce something "wrong"? Are there "good" and "bad" atoms and molecules? You cannot derive an "ought" from an "is" without a transcendent ethic, which begs the question of where the transcendent binding ethic comes from.

Cordially,

135 posted on 09/21/2005 12:47:29 PM PDT by Diamond (Qui liberatio scelestus trucido inculpatus.)
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