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Posted on 09/21/2005 7:07:58 PM PDT by Know your rights
Police are losing the war against pot and it’s time to make it legal and regulate the cultivation and use of it, says Eugene Oscapella, an Ottawa University criminology teacher who co-founded the Canadian Foundation for Drug Policy.
Police say the number and size of local marijuana operations they’re discovering is increasing.
In the last several weeks, police have laid charges after discovering more than $43-million worth of marijuana, mostly from four big busts. Monday West Grey police discovered another $1.3-million worth of marijuana growing south of Flesherton.
The biggest of recent busts have often involved young, Asia men. Police here can’t say if there are local links to Asian crime gangs. Last week, New Brunswick police blamed Asian gangs for moving east and setting up for large-scale grow operations in their province.
But regardless of who’s growing it, police say some of the larger marijuana grow operations are linked to organized crime.
Oscapella says people shouldn’t be misled into thinking these high-profile drug seizures which police present at news conferences will stem the tide much.
“Typically, they probably only get five to 10 per cent of the drugs that are coming into the country or being produced in the country,” said Oscapella, who lectures on drug policy issues to third-year criminology students at Ottawa University.
“These seizures make virtually no difference into the availability of the drug after a period of time. What they might do is take a few players out of the market, then others will move in.”
Oscapella is an Ottawa lawyer who has served on government commissions, chaired the Law Reform Commission of Canada’s drug policy group and is director of law reform for the Canadian Bar Association. He helped found the Canadian Foundation for Drug Policy, an independent organization to study Canada’s drug laws and policies.
He says police and courts have failed to stop marijuana growers and traffickers and their futile efforts have wasted hundreds of millions of dollars.
Half of all high school students in Ontario have tried marijuana by the time they graduate, he said. Fifty to 80 per cent of the students in his university classes have probably tried it too, he said.
The auditor general in December, 2001 determined the federal government spends $500 million a year dealing with drugs, 95 per cent of which goes to law enforcement.
“The people who are rigidly prohibitionist, they think that the police have the answer . . . and they trust the police,” he said. “Basically I trust the police but on drug policy issues, the police organizations are flat wrong.”
Oscapella says the same thing has happened with the cultivation and sale of illegal marijuana as happened when alcohol was prohibited early last century.
“The use of the criminal law to prohibit the production and sale of drugs like marijuana creates a fantastically profitable black market.”
He says a bushel of marijuana costs little more than a bushel of tomatoes to produce. “By criminalizing it, by prohibiting it on the black market, we have made it worth more than its weight in gold in some cases.”
Oscapella said the criminalization of marijuana use and production encourages the development of modern day Al Capones.
He favours a model proposed by a Senate special committee on illegal drugs in September, 2002. It basically recommended legalizing and regulating marijuana. It would be sold much like alcohol is today, with minimum ages for purchase at state-licensed outlets, like the Liquor Control Board of Ontario, including in some specially designated stores. Penalties for driving under the influence of marijuana already exist.
There would also be a licensing system for commercial marijuana growers, like large-scale alcohol distillers require. But anyone could grow small amounts in their own gardens.
“Yes, some people are harmed by marijuana,” he said. “People are harmed by jogging, by rock climbing, by snowmobiling — big in Owen Sound. People are harmed by many, many things. But do we ban those other things?”
Owen Sound Police Chief Tom Kaye said the reason police don’t have the upper hand on drug-growers is because of lenient court sentences.
“There is a huge amount of money involved in it, with little in the way of penalty that’s being handed out by the courts — not that the penalties aren’t on the books — but it’s just that the courts have taken a very laissez-faire approach,” to sentencing.
The 2004 former Molson factory marijuana grow operation in Barrie produced sentences of about 18 months, Kaye noted. That was touted as Canada’s biggest ever marijuana grow operation, with 30,000 plants which police said would be worth $30 million on the street.
“Down in the United States, the average sentencing down there for a grow op of much less is seven years in the penitentiary. So who’s got the bigger problem with grow ops? We do.”
Kaye, a former head of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, said that organization is having second thoughts about endorsing the federal government’s intention to decriminalize the possession of small amounts of marijuana, which would remove the threat faced by young people who smoke a joint. Under the bill, possession of up to 15 grams of marijuana could lead to a fine of up to $150. Growing more than 50 plants could attract a prison term of up to 14 years.
Kaye said the police association is concerned that the legalization lobby has moved beyond decriminalization and is pushing to make the use of marijuana legal and it’s confusing the public. Even if people could grow marijuana in their backyards, he thinks governments would still be spending lots of money for police to chase marijuana growers, just like police are fighting contraband cigarette producers — to protect tax revenue.
Kaye said legalizing marijuana would be asking for trouble. He called it a “proven gateway drug,” meaning its use leads to harder drug use and polls show most people don’t want it legalized.
Oscapella says he’s never used marijuana and he’s not seeking to relax laws to allow him to start now. But using the law to enforce social policy doesn’t work, he argues.
“Why do some people use methamphetamines? Why do some use heroin? Why do some use cocaine? Prohibition never asks those questions, it just punishes everybody. It never looks at what we call the root causes of harmful drug use.”
Money would be better spent preventing the “small percentage” of people who are harmed by these drugs through education and understanding root causes, Oscapella said.
What legal penalties do you advocate for mj possession? What about small time mj dealing?
"Better is a dinner of herbs, than a stalled ox......"
A whole new meaning to "smoked beef". You are adding to the Lords words, my friend. I use herbs in my cooking. Never got high. The only people who actually cook marijuana are the users.
In all your quotes of the Lords word you'll notice the text is talking about eating herbs, not smoking it. In several verses the topic of food is expressed. Again, you are twisting God's words.
The Lord is quite clear about being "sober of mind and spirit".
Maybe, but that observation is questionable considering that people who've consumed alcohol seem to be the least reliable judge of the measure of their own intoxication.
Nope. I've had experience with multiple habitual pot smokers. That's how I know it's wrong.
How many casual or occasional users have you had experience with?
How would you know what is on the DEA website? You sound like a socialist in your textbook pad answer/response. Liberals are notorious in lumping individuals into certain catagories if they express any view that differs from their own.
Guilty by association, I guess. Whether Janet Reno, "Surgeon General", Dr. Jocelyn Elders, or whoever used this description(have they ever used those words?) is irrelevant of the facts.
Quit thinking like the rest of the herd.
The "It's all the same" speech, yet again. It's all the same to you because you wouldn't have it any other way. You'll only respond the the questions you've responded to a hundred times before with the same arguments, and ignore any questions you don't have a canned response to.
"tacticalogic"
Perhaps you should exercise some.
"...least reliable judge of the measure of their own intoxication."
You're assuming there was intoxication. Furthermore, you have read my posts carelessly. To heck with the facts of a persons statement(a typical socialist tactic) as far as you're concerned? You have no respect for yourself or your argument if you half heartedly respond to a post which you didn't bother to understand.
Please do not respond to my posts. Civil discourse escapes you.
Pointing out that drinkers who are obviously inebriated to an outside observer often do not recognize the state of their own intoxication seems to have struck a nerve.
"The effects of alcohol intoxication are greatly influenced by individual variations among users. Some users may become intoxicated at a much lower Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) level than is shown."
0.02-0.03 BAC: No loss of coordination, slight euphoria and loss of shyness. Depressant effects are not apparent.
0.04-0.06 BAC: Feeling of well-being, relaxation, lower inhibitions, sensation of warmth. Euphoria. Some minor impairment of reasoning and memory, lowering of caution.
0.07-0.09 BAC: Slight impairment of balance, speech, vision, reaction time, and hearing. Euphoria. Judgement and self- control are reduced, and caution, reason and memory are impaired.
0.10-0.125 BAC: Significant impairment of motor coordination and loss of good judgement. Speech may be slurred; balance, vision, reaction time and hearing will be impaired. Euphoria. It is illegal to operate a motor vehicle at this level of intoxication.
0.13-0.15 BAC: Gross motor impairment and lack of physical control. Blurred vision and major loss of balance. Euphoria is reduced and dysphoria is beginning to appear.
0.16-0.20 BAC: Dysphoria (anxiety, restlessness) predominates, nausea may appear. The drinker has the appearance of a "sloppy drunk."
0.25 BAC: Needs assistance in walking; total mental confusion. Dysphoria with nausea and some vomiting.
0.30 BAC: Loss of consciousness.
0.40 BAC and up: Onset of coma, possible death due to respiratory arrest.
--http://www.indiana.edu/~adic/effects.html
*One beer in one hour gives a 160 lb person a BAC of 0.02, according to this calculator:
--http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm
KH, I appreciate the infomation in which you've provided. Perhaps there are individuals out there who have experienced such effects. On occasion we enjoy a glass of wine. It has not been my experience with regard to the mind altering effects of alcohol. I'm sure this would not be the case had I consumed a larger volume of wine.
BOT,
Due to the fact that I am pressed for time, I will try to be brief and concise.
You and I share the same sentiments in the abuse of power the federal government exercises.
I am addressing the issue of whether or not marijuana is morally wrong to use. You know where I stand on this position.
Thank you for your passionate engagement.
Genesis 1:12
"And God saw that it was good."
Note that this was before the fall. Very important detail.
I truly believe the alcohol industry is behind the war on pot. They stand to lose BIGGEST if pot is ever legalized. Who wants to drink an entire 12 pk when you can just eat a "special brownie" and feel GREAT and not have a hangover the next day.
The issue, KH, for me is whether or not marijuana should be legalized. Not the degree of punishment. That is a different matter. Furthermore, it is a question of whether the use of marijuana is morally wrong. As I have stated throughout this thread, I believe it is.
You're welcome.
Also, what legal penalties do you recommend for mj possession? What about small time mj dealers?
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
“Child porn and pedophilia violate rights; drug use does not.” You say in defense of drug use.
1. And what do you suppose happens with the money gained through drug use?
Ever hear of Pablo Escobar? Life in Columbia- routine assassinations of politicians, judges, and reporters, kidnapped and killed members of the Colombian elite, and occasionally live burials. Escobar’s specialty was to hang them upside down and set them on fire. FACT: The cartels in Columbia got their start through marijuana production and trafficking.
An interesting read about the extent of the drug war: http://cocaine.org/cokecrime/ , http://cocaine.org/colombia/farc.html , http://cocaine.org/colombia/index.html .
Who do you think profits from the opium trade? What do you think practically the ONLY export of Afghanistan was? Do the Taliban violate rights?
2. Why should a drug user get a transplant liver, or heart; why should we pay $3000 A DAY to keep them alive once they burn out? Who ends up paying for these shadows in our society?
Ever hear of AIDS, HEP or other great blood borne diseases?
http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/drugabuse.html Guess what the primary route of infection is? Surly government propaganda.
Even Cannabis has huge costs associated with its use. Go ask a police officer how many car accidents he believes marijuana was involved in that he has seen (Actual statistic of fatal accidents involving cannabis is 18%). Besides retarding the ability to rapidly acquire new information, THC suppresses the human immune system ( http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/drugabuse.html ) is believed to exasperate pre-existing mental disorders, in addition to the tar/carbon monoxide etc which is also found in the cigarette.
The issue, KH, for me is whether or not marijuana should be legalized. Not the degree of punishment. That is a different matter.
In all fairness, you are arguing for the illegality of an activity in which you used to regularly engage. I think it is relevant to know what penalties you advocate for others who do the same.
Can you at least tell me if you want it to be a civil offense, or a criminal one?
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