Posted on 09/22/2005 4:15:34 AM PDT by SeaLion
Editor's Note: This article is the first in a special LiveScience series about the theory of evolution and a competing idea called intelligent design.
TODAY: An overview of the increasingly heated exchange between scientists and the proponents of intelligent design.
COMING FRIDAY : Proponents argue that intelligent design is a legitimate scientific theory, but a close look at their arguments shows that it doesn't pass scientific muster.
Science can sometimes be a devil's bargain: a discovery is made, some new aspect of nature is revealed, but the knowledge gained can cause mental anguish if it contradicts a deeply cherished belief or value.
[snip]
Darwin's truth can be a hard one to accept. His theory of evolution tells us that humans evolved from non-human life as the result of a natural process, one that was both gradual, happening over billions of years, and random. It tells us that new life forms arise from the splitting of a single species into two or more species, and that all life on Earth can trace its origins back to a single common ancestor.
Perhaps most troubling of all, Darwin's theory of evolution tells us that life existed for billions of years before us, that humans are not the products of special creation and that life has no inherent meaning or purpose.
For Americans who view evolution as inconsistent with their intuitions or beliefs about life and how it began, Creationism has always been a seductive alternative.
Creationism's latest embodiment is intelligent design (ID), a conjecture that certain features of the natural world are so intricate and so perfectly tuned for life that they could only have been designed by a Supreme Being.
[article continues...]
(Excerpt) Read more at livescience.com ...
Mini-ping. Not breaking news, but a reasonable overview methinks -- with Part 2 published tomorrow
A better title would be: Intelligent Design: fact takes on the fiction of Evolution.
Jake
Genesis Chapter One
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth. 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:1-31 ACP/KJV
Day one: God made the earth, no form, but earth and then He created light. Verses 1-5
Day two: God made a separation, a space, between the waters that were on the earth and the waters above the earth. Verses 6,7&8.
Day three: God spoke and the dry ground appeared and the waters were gathered into separate places separated by the dry ground, and then God created the grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind.
Day four: God made the sun, the moon, and all the stars and heavenly bodies.
Day five: God created great whales, and every living creature that is in the air and in the waters. He then blessed them and said, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Day six: God created first the animals that would populate the dry ground and then last of all after everything was done, God created Man.
Now read this carefully, read it just as God said it:
26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Genesis 1:26-31 ACP/KJV)
Before we go any further, I want you to see the verses that confirm that God created all things in six normal, everyday, 24 hour days, not days comprised of millions and millions of years. "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:19 ACP/KJV
Now, before we go any further I want to show you something: something from God's Holy Word. "...and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." That is part of a description of all those who will be tossed into the lake fo fire for all eternity in Revelation 21:8. Now ask yourself this, who do you think is more likely to be called a liar by God and tossed into that eternal suffering in the lake of fire?
A. Your wife for lying about her age?
B. Your 10 year old son for lying about stealing a few cookies out of the cookie jar?
C. Your teen age daughter for lying to you about sneaking out of her room in the dead of night, getting pregnant, and having an abortion?
D. Those religious leaders, those men and women with fancy degrees and words who call God Himself a liar. Telling us that God doesn't know what He is talking about when He tells us that He made the earth and all things in and on it, and in the heavens above in six literal 24 hour days?
I know "C" looks tempting, but the answer is D!
I don't care that many of these men and women who call God a liar, who make themselves to be smarter than God, have done great and wonderful deeds and works. I don't care that they have healed the sick, and collected clothing for the victims of storms. If they call God a liar by saying that we evolved instead of that God made us, then they are calling God a liar and He addresses them in Matthew seven: Not every one that saith unto Me, "Lord, Lord", shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?" And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.
God spoke in English?
Sorry, my third question should have read:
Third, what evidence do you have that the Muslim interpretation of things, in which the Koran was given to the Jews and Christians who then perverted it into the current forms of those religions, is false (assuming that you do, in fact, believe it to be false)?
The fellow writes this as if it applies to only one side. :-)
No, actually he doesn't--but the snip I had to make to fit the extract into 300 words meant sacrificing the short paragraph in which he gives other examples for context; sorry if my truncation here caused confusion on this point.
The history of science is full of unedifying tantrums and bouts of "mental anguish" by scientists who found out they were barking up the wrong tree (cf. cold fusion)--but those are cases where science invalidated their faulty findings. The current issue--ID--isn't about a scientific challenge, it's about an ill-intentioned attempt to either require science to confirm one narrow set of religious doctrines, or else to dispense with science altother.
Yeah. I'm always in doubt about whether to ping the list for articles like this, or to hold off for some actual news (either scientific or political). So I'm asking for input. To ping, or not to ping.
I think it is worthwhile to consider one's epistemology when approaching things such as this before having a dialogue. When people come together on this subject it is important to understand how each person "knows" anything. If the only way we can truly know things comes from a naturalist perspective (those things can be tested with the 5 senses) then that will ultimately determine the value we place on the "evidence" that a non-naturalist offers.
I think that if a person can demonstrate that there are such things (not necessarily God) that exist apart from being placed under a "microscope" of sorts, then it can set the stage for a more productive discussion on the questions you have asked.
Something the naturalist should consider is the following:
What kind of physical test can they do to prove that only the things that can be observed with the 5 senses truly exist? Is that even possible? If it isn't possible to show this epistemology from a naturalist perspective wouldn't that render naturalism self-refuting?
You offered 2 types of questions. The first question was from a naturalist perspective. The others were from a cultural/Biblical validity standpoint.
Anyway, that was just a few thoughts I had.... for what it's worth. (probably not worth much :) ) Often times people don't take the time to first understand the other person's epistemology. When they don't do that they end up just spinning their wheels talking past each other on the "proof" that the other person discounts out of hand.
By the way, I am not assuming you to be a naturalist. Only your first question would I argue was from a naturalists perspective.
- RetroFit
What I have stated many times here on FR. No different than the furvor caused by the idea of a heliocentric solar system so many moons ago.
Thanks for posting this.
An Assault on Evolution? I find it ironic that proponents of "science" speak far and wide about free thinking and open research, yet when a view is proposed that doesn't fit their template, it is termed an assault. Why is another idea considered an assault? Perhaps the free thinkers of the scientific community are not as open with their views as they would like us to believe............Kind of like the PC crowd.
Is that a quote from Mahler?
Let's see what Part 2 of the article looks like when it's published tomorrow, and see if it is pingable then? As I said, nothing new here -- but it's a good intro to the political dimension of the debate.
And given that there isn't any science to debate, the whole matter is a worrying bit of religious/political activism, and that is what really needs to be understood. It just isn't a "let's be fair and teach the controversary" issue at all
Hmmm... How "fee thinking" should we get? Want to add astrology to astronomy? Shall we add magic potions to our chemistry curriculum?
You guys must be really, really dubtful about this stuff, because you keep repeating it. I repreat things when I'm afraid I'll forget them.
:^)
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