Forget democracy. If it were possible for democratic institutions to develop in these countries it would have taken place decades ago.
Peace and democracy and are the reward for those who travail on the ensanguined path to freedom.
Posted on 09/26/2005 3:42:54 AM PDT by jmc1969
The rising optimism that enveloped the Pentagon last spring about victory in Iraq has given way to more sober assessments that the insurgency will stay somewhat robust for months or years to come.
Spot interviews with mid- and senior-level military personnel reveal a grudging acknowledgement that the two-prong enemy Zarqawi's foreign terrorists and Saddam loyalists remains potent despite battles in which scores of fighters are killed or captured.
A senior Pentagon official who monitors daily intelligence reports on Iraq was asked whether the U.S. is winning.
"Good question," the official said. "It's open to discussion." The official spoke as the death toll among U.S. troops topped the 1,900 mark.
The insurgency's resilience is one reason the Bush administration shifted its message this summer. The new talking point became that the U.S. alone cannot defeat the insurgents and that the Iraqi people in the end must do the job. Yet inside the Pentagon, and among field commanders, there is a firm belief that Zarqawi is growing desperate.
"You don't see Zarqawi attacking Americans," said a special-operations officer who has debriefed commandos returning from Iraq. "He is so desperate and twisted he's attacking Shi'ites."
A second Pentagon official said intelligence reports show that militant Shi'ites increasingly see Zarqawi as an enemy, not an ally.
"Shi'ites are rapidly concluding that al-Qaeda is serving no purpose," the official said. "I read the intelligence. Shi'ites are saying, 'If you want the Americans out, get rid of al-Qaeda.'
Pentagon officials were quicker to express optimism last spring, as the number of overall attacks dropped and Zarqawi seemed to be running out of steam. But then over the summer, his network unleashed a series of powerful suicide bombs across the country. Al-Qaeda got better at recruiting jihadists and building bombs. The lull gave way to a bloodbath.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
What's the date on that puppy? (I'm on dial-up and don't want to click on the link)
Today
Thanks, I'm also too lazy to go out the driveway to get my copy.
Expect some very good news soon.
How soon?
Well once again the actually quotes tell a much different message then what the Headline or the Dinasour Media spin that is put on the topice. What the heck is wrong with the Wash Times, they are SUPPOSE to be the good guys. I guess maybe this is a case of underpromise and over deliver.
Above my pay grade.
Fine with me.
This war will suddenly just stop. Wait n see, the supply of insurgents will just dry up. Especially with the Iraqi's ratting out any new strangers that move into their area. The U.S. military, if they don't have one already, needs to have a hotline for citizens to call and report any strangers or suspecious activity in their area.
When the insurgents find that they are being killed or arrested within days or hours of their arrival the supply of terrorists will just dry up.
They have had a hotline that has been very sucessful for some time.
What the heck is wrong with the Wash Times,
######
I have noticed a persistent shift to "mainstream" (aka anti-Bush) type photo selection and headline writing for the past few months. Whether the editorial board have decided this or lower level emloyees are exercising personal decisions, I wonder and reserve judgment.
Priceless:
"The U.S. military, if they don't have one already, needs to have a hotline for citizens to call and report any strangers or suspecious activity in their area."
It might help to get the phone system working first!
the first thing that should already have been done is, prove to them, beyond any shadow of doubt, that there is a power greater than themselves, and its not Allah
Ping to watch replies
Throwing an iron ring around Iraq is physically impossible, not to mention pointless. The Iraq government is our ally so freezing their assets and shutting down oil exports makes absolutely no sense. As to striking terrorist areas...where exactly would those be? It's not like they congregate in one specific area. For every terrorist you kill you will have to kill 100 innocent Iraqis. The way to bring peace to Iraq is to continue hunting down and killing the terrorists while the democratic process, as clumsy as it is, continues to evolve.
And good morning to you.
Sigh.
Maybe we should just let them have it. Maybe having uncontrolled world terrorism isn't that bad after all. The first World Trade center bombing, the USS Cole, Somalia, Lebanon, and losing a couple of diplomatic buildings in Africa have taught us that giving up is really the best way to go.
Surrounding, bombing, isolating, and otherwise coercing foreign countries is not going to plant nations of free people. And nations of free people are the only solution to the problem of terrorism.
Nonesense, we get many tips via phone calls.
Forget your primary objective. Sounds like a plan!If it were possible for democratic institutions to develop in these countries it would have taken place decades ago. History has demonstrated that the Middle East can be ruled only by outside colonial rule or by theocratic (or secular) strongmen.
That is Zarqawi's (sp) position, and if you two are right we will find Iraq to be an expensive and painful failure. If however the people Zarqawi is killing or putting in danger can cohere against his vicious kamakaze assassins and attain critical mass, Iraq becomes an ally in the ME. From a hostile tyranny to an ally is quite a step, and not one that you accomplish on the cheap or instantaneously, without learning some painful lessons from your own missteps.
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28541.htm
You are too pompous for words. If you believe that mid-eastern people cannot handle democracy you are not only arrogant but truly ignorant.
Iraq is not a quagmire and the democracy that will arise there will be a model for the entire world. It took seven years, after we beat the brits in the Revolution, for the US to get a Constitution. It's only been two years since the sadman has been out of power. Your rant disgusts me.
Forget democracy. If it were possible for democratic institutions to develop in these countries it would have taken place decades ago.
Peace and democracy and are the reward for those who travail on the ensanguined path to freedom.
Good points. Now, are you capable of arguing the opposite side?
That is really sad...LOL, sounds like me.
Maybe the press should just be put on the INTSUM distribution list.
This atrocious reporting is from the Wash Times???
It took me exactly one Google search and 15 seconds to find "the Bush administration's talking points" from May 2004, in which W discusses the turnover of security in great detail:
"...We want Iraqi forces to gain experience and confidence in dealing with their country's enemies. We want the Iraqi people to know that we trust their growing capabilities, even as we help build them.... Iraq's military, police, and border forces have begun to take on broader responsibilities. Eventually, they must be the primary defenders of Iraqi security, as American and coalition forces are withdrawn."
President Outlines Steps to Help Iraq Achieve Democracy and Freedom, May 24, 2004
This entire action has cost less than 2000 American soldiers' lives. That is a remarkable number. During the battles of Antietam and Chickamauga that would have been the cost of an hour or two of fighting.
There is no perspective given by the media when this number is mentioned. Listening to the Treason Media one gets the idea that the number is high when, in fact, it it remarkably low.
Save your breath with negative, chicken-littles.
These are the highly vocal defeatists that have been encouraging our enemies not to give up.
Terrorists have been encouraged to believe that if they can hang on long enough, "the enemy within" in America (along with their like-minded friends around the world) will eventually be successful in their efforts to chip away America's resolve and give them the win.
They would have given up long ago if America would have presented a united front.
Any of the major difficulties we've encountered in the war so far, can be layed right at the feet of "the enemy within".
They need to be dealt with ----- yesterday!!!
You could hardly be more wrong about almost everything in your post. We will have troops there for years but that makes it no more a quagmire than Germany is a quagmire or Italy is a quagmire or Japan is a quagmire.
We have bogged the enemy down in Iraq and it is fighting for its life unsuccessfully. Our losses have been amazingly low when put into perspective.
Of course, your strategy has no basis in reality since you believe that two or three man terror operations are targetable by our macro resources. B52s are useless against such targets. And strangling Iraq economically makes no sense at all since the vast majority are not aligned with the terrorists but are their targets. It would be hard to come up with a more ridiculous plan than you proposed embargo.
Nor can you point out any terror operation which has had long-term success against a modern military. These pin pricks only impact the gullible and cowardly and have little impact on us. Remember the Ewoks are not real.
Of course your conception of the overall strategy has no bearing on the reality of the situation either and is as false as your view of democracy and the middle east. There were no democratic governments in Europe not that long ago and America showed the way there as it will in the Middle East. Defeatists were telling MacArthur sixty years ago that Japan would never be a democracy so what was his point.
In short, you passing the Treason Media line here will not likely win much applause but thanks for playing.
Fearful "can't do" namby-pambys are a dime a dozen. The ignoble were quivering in the corner (here and abroad) at the founding of this country.
But you can bet that they were the first out of the box to try and grab a share of the success - a success that can only be won by "can-do" optimistic people of noble resolve who are willing to give their lives and fortunes so that others could live free.
All I have to say to the nay-sayers is, "Get out of the way", because I know you aren't capable of leading and you don't even make a trustworthy follower - you're too emotionally unstable.
None of Mao's dictums are being met in Iraq.
Not only are the Sunni's NOT supporting this but they are turning in terror operatives. Not only are the Sunnis not providing the killers but they are increasingly being drawn from abroad. Mao was not speaking of Mongolians or Nepalese fighters when he was describing China's war but Chinese. Thus, #1 is not being met.
More operations around border areas are seriously impacting terrorist movements. Syria is becoming more concerned about the potential cost of allowing its border to be trangressed and is doing more to stop it. Besides Mao was not speaking of terror operations using sanctuary but military. There is NO military operations being conducted against our forces in Iraq and Terrorist acts will never defeat a modern army.
There are also no significant military aid being given the terrorist by the rest of the world. Most of the resources being used are from Iraq. The place was little more than an ammo dump topped with minarets when Saddam was running rampant.
It is remarkable that some people are so shortsighted and still swallow the Treason Media lies without gagging.
Apparently we will never deal with them.
The Articles of Confederation were more of a lesson showing what NOT to do than a means of governing the nation. The War was won despite them and after the military actions were over the nation became less and less capable of acting in the national interest.
Iraq was ruled from Baghdad for a thousand years before the Britist arrived. Its exact borders may have not been established but the people shared many common features as a nation.
Our greatest enemy is the Treason Media a wholly owned subsidiary of the DemocRAT Party.
Leni
What, are we hot on the trail of one of Zarqawi's top lieutenants?
The proper authorities will say and when they say you will say, "bet that's what he was talkin' about."
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28541.htm
The DemocRAT party is a criminal enterprise who would have no success without their like-minded accomplices in the MSM. It's the natural home for "yellow pink people" the colors that run. They are perfectly described HERE
Perhaps the 'good guys' are being realistic? I'd rather have a realistic forecast than some cheerleading everything is fine and dandy pep rally. Remember these are the guys on the ground. Not the ones that see one village and tell us how absolutely great it's going but the ones that see the whole scenario and are looking at it absent of political agendas.
It is possible to be conservative and patriotic with unquestioning support of Republican agendas. Maybe that's what the Times is doing. Reporting the news.
"According to Mao's rules a successful guerrilla movement needs 3 things.
#1. active support of at least 10% of the population.(sunni)
#2. secure sanctuaries to operate from. (syria,iran)
#3. ongoing aid from foreign governments. (the entire world)
For some reason we are not doing the things that our military knows we should be doing. We have tried to co-op the sunni but the border is a joke and we have done nothing about the foreign support. These things must change in order for us to win."
OK, let's cut to the chase then. We know we need to invade Iran & Syria to really begin winning the war on terrorism. It is not the military that doesn't have the stomach for this war, it is half of our own bloody countrymen. In other words, the left. The left thinks like the rest of Europe, that we can "talk" our way out of a war. Russia and China are not our buddies and support regimes such as Iran, Syria and North Korea. These places wear our economic & military assets down. Tell me how we can stop Russia from supporting Iran? Tell me how we can pressure China from telling Kim to back down on his nuke weapon program?
We need Iranian oil as does the rest of Europe. So how do we get our own energy supply so we can tell the arabs to totally kiss our behind?
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