Replies

No,

In a T72 vs. a M1 you end up like in Iraq- a bloodbath, TWICE. An example that our Russian friends MUST downplay. A T72 is "junk". A BTR70 is "junk". A BMP1 and 2 is "junk".

When 762x51 M80 ball tears through the armor on a BTR70 at 200 meters, when 25mm M919 tears through a T72 at ranges over 1500 meters you got "junk".

The Russians had and still have an Army of "mass" not quality. Take a look at Russian NVG's. They call them Generation 3 or 3+ but they are WAY behind some of the stuff we issue our truck drivers after the Infantry phases them out.

Yes, their Army is equipped with what we would describe as "junk".

The people who tend to buy their stuff often have NO OTHER CHOICE because the US, Germany, France, GB, S. Korea, Italy, or Israel won't sell them what they want. I gave examples: Syria, Iran, Libya........ REAL WORLD examples I can back. If given a choice, few will prefer a T-80 over a M1, Leo2, Chally, LeClerk. Those buying the T80 have no other CHOICES. Iran is interested in advanced SAMs from Russia, do you think the US will offer any to Iran? Israel? The Russians are bottom feeders in defense. They make their deals where others are unwilling to sell. Coincidence that N. Korea fly’s new MIG29s?

Red6

Red6,

Okay you like the word 'junk' lol, it does not bother me.
I think the Iraq battlefield is not the best place to make these determinations because we had so much superiority there in every way. Also another opponent would not have just sat there and let us bomb the s*** out of them.

The Sherman was junk against the Panzer and the Tiger, but like one German WWII combatant pointed out, for every 10 Shermans they blew up, another 20 Shermans popped up. Most everyone I knew thought the M113 was junk, the Sheridan was definitely junk.
The US turned its nose up at the Mig17 too, but the Mig17 took on and knocked out of the sky much US equipment, including the Phantom.

BTW they they ever determine what knocked out that M1 in Iraq with a hole the diameter of a pencil burned halfway thru it?

BTW why are you including Israel with Iran?

Wolf