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Endangered Species Act rewrite passed by House
ap on San Diego Union Tribune ^ | 9/29/05 | Erica Werner - ap

Posted on 09/29/2005 4:42:21 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

WASHINGTON – The House on Thursday passed legislation that could greatly expand private property rights under the environmental law that is credited with helping keep the bald eagle from extinction but also has provoked bitter fighting.

By a vote of 229-193, lawmakers approved a top-to-bottom overhaul of the 1973 Endangered Species Act, perhaps the nation's most powerful environmental law. The law has led to contentious battles over species such as the spotted owl, the snail darter and the red-legged frog.

The rewrite faces an uncertain future in the Senate, where Republican Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island, head of the panel that oversees the law, has expressed concerns about the House bill.

The bill would require the government to compensate property owners if steps to protect species thwarted development plans. It also would make political appointees responsible for some scientific determinations and would stop the government from designating "critical habitat," which limits development.

The changes were pushed through by the chairman of the House Resources Committee, GOP Rep. Richard Pombo. The California rancher contends the current rules unduly burden landowners and lead to costly lawsuits while doing too little to save plants and animals.

"You've got to pay when you take away somebody's private property. That is what we have to do," Pombo told House colleagues. "The only way this is going to work is if we bring in property owners to be part of the solution and to be part of recovering those species."

Many Democrats and moderate Republicans said Pombo's bill would eliminate important protections for species and clear the way for large handouts from the government to property owners.

The bill sets a "dangerous precedent that private individuals must be paid to comply with an environmental law," said Rep. Nick Rahall of West Virginia, the committee's top Democrat.

"What's next? Paying citizens to wear seat belts? ... This bill will not improve species' ability to recover," he said.

A White House statement on Thursday supported the bill. But it noted that payments to private property owners could have a "significant" impact on the budget.

The Congressional Budget Office estimated that those payments would run less than $20 million a year. The bill's opponents predicted a much higher total.

The Fish and Wildlife Service says there are 1,268 threatened and endangered plants and animals in the United States. About a dozen have gone off the list over the years after they were determined to have recovered; nine have become extinct.

Just this week, a toad that environmentalists say is being killed off by an invasive fungus that may have originated in Africa is no longer a candidate for protection under the act, the agency said. It said the boreal toad is a subspecies of a toad whose habitat ranges from Alaska to New Mexico.

Pombo's bill would:

–Eliminate critical habitat. That is area now required to be designated when a species is listed and is protected from adverse actions by federal agencies. Instead, "recovery plans" for species, including designation of habitat, would have to be developed within two years. The recovery plans would not have regulatory force and the habitat would not be protected from federal actions.

–Specify that landowners with development plans are due answers from the interior secretary within 180 days, with a 180-day extension possible, about whether the development would harm protected species. If the government fails to respond in time, the development could go forward. If the government blocks the development, the landowner would be paid the fair market value of the proposed development.

–Give the interior secretary the job of determining what constitutes appropriate scientific data for decision-making under the law.

An alternative from a group of Democrats and moderate Republicans would have strengthened the recovery plans, eliminated the payments to landowners for blocked developments and created a scientific advisory board to assist the interior secretary. The proposal failed by a 216-206 vote.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the Net: Endangered Species Act: www.fws.gov/endangered/esa.html


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 109th; endangered; esa; house; hr2834; hr3824; passed; rewrite; species
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-74 next last
Too bad this doesn't cover heterosexuals too.

Next session. ;-)

1 posted on 09/29/2005 4:42:23 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge

Rep. Dennis Cardoza, D-Atwater, second from left, answers a question concerning a measure to revise the Endangered Species Act, that he and Congressmen Greg Walden, R-Oregon, left, George Radanovich, R-Mariposa, second from right, and Richard Pombo, R-Tracy, right, introduced, during a Capitol news conference held in Sacramento,Calif., Monday, Sept. 19, 2005. Calling it the Endangered Species Recovery Act of 2005, the authors say the measure will eliminate endless lawsuits filed over the ESAand work to improve populations so that species can be removed from the endangered list. (AP Photo/Rich Pedroncelli)


2 posted on 09/29/2005 4:47:07 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... "To remain silent when they should protest makes cowards of men." -- THOMAS JEFFERSON)
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To: NormsRevenge

Outstanding!


3 posted on 09/29/2005 4:49:32 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: NormsRevenge

The bill sets a "dangerous precedent that private individuals must be paid to comply with an environmental law," said Rep. Nick Rahall of West Virginia, the committee's top Democrat.

Oh, the horror!!!


4 posted on 09/29/2005 4:51:08 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Southack

Not good enough FoR
Breaking tho, at least not for long. ;-)


Let's hope the EPA finally gets sent packing as well


5 posted on 09/29/2005 4:51:25 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... "To remain silent when they should protest makes cowards of men." -- THOMAS JEFFERSON)
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To: NormsRevenge; Admin Moderator

YoYo
Breaking News

:)


6 posted on 09/29/2005 4:54:08 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... "To remain silent when they should protest makes cowards of men." -- THOMAS JEFFERSON)
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To: Southack

There has been a sea change in Washington, and the strong undercurrents are running the other way....

We may yet drill for oil in Alaska. There is already renewed interest in tapping into resources all along our continental shelf.


7 posted on 09/29/2005 4:54:08 PM PDT by alloysteel ("Master of the painfully obvious.....")
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To: NormsRevenge
The bill sets a "dangerous precedent that private individuals must be paid to comply with an environmental law," said Rep. Nick Rahall of West Virginia, the committee's top Democrat.

"What's next? Paying citizens to wear seat belts? ... This bill will not improve species' ability to recover," he said.

How is paying to people to wear seat belts comparable to paying people when you take land away from the owners control to save some toad?

8 posted on 09/29/2005 4:57:22 PM PDT by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: alloysteel
legislation that could greatly expand private property rights ..

Now who would ever support such a thing?

Obviously not dems and special interests whose agenda is to bring this nation to its knees and bow to those who control the Red&GReen movement.

9 posted on 09/29/2005 4:58:37 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... "To remain silent when they should protest makes cowards of men." -- THOMAS JEFFERSON)
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To: NormsRevenge

Endangered Species Act: Endangers Homo Sapien


ESA Reform Bill [TESRA - H.R. 2834] Is A Step Backward
James Buchal - September 23, 2005

The latest attempt to reform the Endangered Species Act (the Act), H.R. 3824, titled "The Threatened and Endangered Species Reform Act," or TESRA, contains positive features.

However, this bill would make Section 7 of the Act even worse. This Section of the Act looms above all others for the carnage it has caused throughout the West.

Section 7 of the Act declares that federal agencies must avoid taking action that would "jeopardize the continued existence of listed species."

Lawsuits filed under Section 7 are responsible for exterminating small timber operators (owls), Klamath Basin farmers (suckers), doubling electricity rates in the Pacific Northwest (salmon), and creating countless other poster children for Endangered Species Act reform.*

Once upon a time, the meaning of "jeopardize the continued existence of" was clear: Congress wanted to make sure that agencies did not exterminate a listed species.

If an agency did wish to take action that would do so, the agency would have to get an exemption from the "God Squad."

It was called the "God Squad" because the premise was that, if an exemption were given, the species would be exterminated. Other parts of the Act call for recovery plans for listed species, but Congress wisely recognized that some federal actions might have to proceed -- whether or not they impeded the recovery of listed species.

Pombo's bill changes Section 7 by adding a definition of "jeopardize the continued existence of" to the Act:

"The action reasonably would be expected to significantly impede, directly or indirectly, the conservation in the long-term of the species in the wild."

This is a radical departure from the simple concept of not wiping species off the face of the earth.

Under H.R. 3824, any and all federal agency actions must now cease if they are deemed to "significantly impede" "conservation" -- even "indirectly".

From a definition already in the Act, we know that "conservation" means "the use of all methods and procedures which are necessary to bring any endangered species or threatened species to the point at which the measures provided pursuant to this Act are no longer necessary."

In other words, "conservation" means doing everything necessary to fully recover listed species to the point where they can be removed from the list of protected species.

If the Pombo bill passes, the question will no longer be whether federal agencies threaten to exterminate an entire species; the question will be whether or not what they do is would "directly or indirectly" impede the conservation programs of the fish and wildlife agencies.

In a context where those agencies are infested with biologists who are eager to spend countless dollars to save a single fish or rodent, almost any use of public resources (other than paying said biologists) can -- and will be -- characterized as "significantly impeding" conservation.

The inevitable result of Pombo's bill is that environmentalists will have a much more powerful tool for shutting down any federal agency action with which they disagree.

To make matters worse, the Pombo bill removes the "God Squad" from the Act entirely, so that now -- when federal judges issue crazy Endangered Species Act injunctions http://www.buchal.com/salmon/news/nf84.htm -- the people of the United States will be utterly powerless to stop them through their elected representatives.

It is true that we haven't elected anyone with the courage to actually convene the God Squad in a long time, but why on earth would anyone remove this safety valve from the Act?

Representative Pombo and Walden may not have fully considered the implications of their changes, but the meager benefits of their bill pale beside the larger harm these problems promise.

If this is an innocent mistake, they should be willing to revise the bill to remove these changes to Section 7.

If not, the bill should be killed on the floor.






*Almost none of these animals were genuinely endangered, and Pombo's bill does nothing to solve the fundamental problem of bogus listings. Indeed, the bill arguably makes it harder to get rid of bogus listings -- because "fundamental error" may now be required instead of mere "error."

You have permission to reprint this article, and are encouraged to do so. The sooner people figure out what's going on, the quicker we'll have more fish in the rivers.

Copyright 2005, James Buchal.

http://www.buchal.com/salmon/news/nf87.htm

Recommended, researched additional reading:

The full text of TESRA, H.R. 2834

http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/issues/more/esa/TESRA/hr3824.pdf

The first Internet location of the leaked TESRA draft (June 28, 2005):

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/Programs/policy/esa/Pombo-summary.pdf

Its press release (same date):

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/press/pombo6-28-05.html

The first Internet location of the current TESRA bill (September 15, 2005):

Pombo's own section by section analysis of his bill

Its press release (same date):

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/press/pombo9-15-05.html

The Many Facets of The Endangered Species Act (updated version)

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/articles6/many_facets_of_the_endangered_sp.htm

The Endangered Species Act of 1973 (full text):

http://www.fws.gov/endangered/esa.html

The CITES (Convention on International Trade in Threatened Species of Wild Flora and Fauna) treaty

http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/text.shtml


10 posted on 09/29/2005 5:02:28 PM PDT by hombre_sincero (www.spadata.com)
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To: hombre_sincero

THanks! LOL


11 posted on 09/29/2005 5:06:15 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... "To remain silent when they should protest makes cowards of men." -- THOMAS JEFFERSON)
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To: NormsRevenge; freepatriot32; abbi_normal_2; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; ...
Hit the ping lists! America may be starting to awaken! Perhaps the return of common sense is trying to make a comeback, and that reality may be just that!

Enviro-whacks go home!!!

The adults are in motion now.
12 posted on 09/29/2005 5:15:21 PM PDT by Issaquahking (Islam is a religion of peace...POS! I learned all I need to know about Islam on 9/11/01)
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To: NormsRevenge
To the Left, only the government can protect the environment. Private property owners are viewed as an obstacle to keeping the earth green. In reality, the goal is socialism. The government owns and manages "the commons" for the benefit of the elite.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
13 posted on 09/29/2005 5:20:19 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: NormsRevenge
"helping keep the bald eagle from extinction"

This is another big lie. There are places in British Columbia and Alaska that bald eagles are so plentiful that they are almost pests. There is zero threat of extinction.

14 posted on 09/29/2005 5:21:17 PM PDT by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: ncountylee

I saw a few on our cruise earlier this month, we never got to close to land and recall seeing not so mnay years ago on another trip there, quite a few whales too.. not that I am advocating whaling , mind you.


15 posted on 09/29/2005 5:24:53 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... "To remain silent when they should protest makes cowards of men." -- THOMAS JEFFERSON)
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To: NormsRevenge
There are many important improvements in this bill. There are also some serious problems.

Endangered Species Act [TESRA - HR 2834] A Step Backward

16 posted on 09/29/2005 5:28:57 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are REALLY stupid.)
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To: NormsRevenge
The bill sets a "dangerous precedent that private individuals must be paid to comply with an environmental law," said Rep. Nick Rahall of West Virginia, the committee's top Democrat.

Typical Democrat thinking:

We can do anything to you as long as we attribut it to protecting the environment, or saving the children, or some other sob-story cause. Why take property and compensate when you can just prevent any use and still collect taxes on it?

17 posted on 09/29/2005 5:29:18 PM PDT by konaice
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To: Issaquahking
The Endangered Species Act is an UnNatural Act. So is the Wilderness Act. Both are based upon faulty premises.

The Endangered Species Act attempts to outlaw extinction. But over 99% of all species that have ever existed are extinct, and the extinction process will go on - Endangered Species Act or no Endangered Species Act.

As for the other of the Two Great UnNatural Acts, the Wilderness Act - conditions defined as "wilderness" haven't existed in North America since at least the Quaternary Extinctions some 11,000 years ago.

America was fire managed and hunted by the indigenous peoples for at least that long.

For Congress to attempt to mandate "wilderness" management is like mandating management for unicorns. Both unicorns and "wilderness" are equally mythical.

Fortunately, across America, the citizenry is getting more and more "mythed off" each day.

Pombo and the conservatives must not attempt to either walk on water of 'fix' the unfixable.

Remove the Endangered Species Act from the law books.

Do the same with the Wilderness Act.
18 posted on 09/29/2005 5:36:22 PM PDT by GladesGuru ("In a society predicated upon liberty, it is essential to examine principles)
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To: NormsRevenge

BTTT


19 posted on 09/29/2005 5:37:02 PM PDT by hattend (Rare Bear wins the Gold at Reno 2005)
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To: ariamne; Fred Nerks; jan in Colorado; Former Dodger; Dark Skies; USF; Calpernia

Return of common sense to public policy PING!

Socking it to the greenweenies!

A.A.C.


20 posted on 09/29/2005 5:37:36 PM PDT by AmericanArchConservative (Armour on, Lances high, Swords out, Bows drawn, Shields front ... Eagles UP!)
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To: Carry_Okie

I just cross-linked the threads.

Thanks!


21 posted on 09/29/2005 5:37:46 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... "To remain silent when they should protest makes cowards of men." -- THOMAS JEFFERSON)
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To: Southack

I ahte to say this, but I think that it has little chance in the Senate.


22 posted on 09/29/2005 5:40:30 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Good point.

We still aren't drilling in ANWR, huh?


At what point do we finally hit the "Emergency" level and get off our butts and do what needs to be done?

When we are shivering in the dark, our tractors sitting idle in fields due to fuel shortages?


23 posted on 09/29/2005 5:48:11 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... "To remain silent when they should protest makes cowards of men." -- THOMAS JEFFERSON)
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To: NormsRevenge
At what point do we finally hit the "Emergency" level and get off our butts and do what needs to be done?

This is what the 'Rats have been hoping for. For them to regain power, they pray for BAD things to happen to the US and you can bet your last nickel that they will oppose any and all measures to relieve the current high prices of energy so that it will hurt the economy.

24 posted on 09/29/2005 5:52:10 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: NormsRevenge

bttt


25 posted on 09/29/2005 5:54:48 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: NormsRevenge
"You've got to pay when you take away somebody's private property. That is what we have to do," Pombo told House colleagues. "The only way this is going to work is if we bring in property owners to be part of the solution and to be part of recovering those species."

This simple common-sense assertion is a sight to behold in a Congress infamous for irresponsible thinking and ridiculous reasoning.

The Democrat with a stupid statement about seat belts that isn't worth repeating just does not get it. He think he has the power and moral authority to arbitrarily dictate my behavior, especially in regards to my property. Of course you have to compensate me for preventing me from the use of my property, you imbecile! He is an ugly and evil person.

I doubt that this is large handouts in disguise to property owners. The monetary compensation is the reasonable result of emminent domain protection. It provides a significant disincentive to the government for barring me from the use of my land.

This is an attractive model for zoning law reforms.

26 posted on 09/29/2005 6:03:32 PM PDT by v. crow
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To: NormsRevenge
If the "environmentalists" are for it, oppose it. If they're against it, support it.

And never give one penny to an "environmentalist charity".

27 posted on 09/29/2005 6:07:09 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Love is the ultimate aphrodisiac.)
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To: AmericanArchConservative

bttt


28 posted on 09/29/2005 6:08:22 PM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: NormsRevenge
I'm hoping somebody takes the Florida manatee off the list. The ESL should be reserved for native species. The manatees that live in Florida now are descendants of a food source introduced into Florida when Spained owned Florida.

The are used by leftists in the State to take private property rights without due process.
29 posted on 09/29/2005 6:17:50 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida
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To: All
Save Our Species Alliance Congratulates U.S. House on Updating And Modernizing Endangered Species Act

To: National Desk

Contact: Tom Randall of Save Our Species Alliance, 773-857-5086 or trandall@winningreen.com

GOLDEN, Colo., Sept. 29 /U.S. Newswire/ -- With Democrats contributing 36 "yes" votes, the U.S. House passed the first substantive improvements in the Endangered Species Act since it first became law 31 years ago.

The measure, the Threatened and Endangered Species Recovery Act (TESRA) was the culmination of an effort, led by Resources Committee Chairman Richard Pombo (R-CA), and Dennis Cardoza (D- CA) to improve the recovery rate of endangered and threatened species while making the process fairer for landowners.

"During the debate, the entire House of Representatives seemed to agree the ESA is in need of updates and improvements," Pombo said. It's incredible how far we have come.

"What surprised me most today," Pombo added, "was the strong ideological differences about whether or not homeowners should be compensated when their property is taken, as the fifth amendment of the Constitution requires. Upholding this right and partnering with the landowner is the only way we are going to improve the ESA's failing result for recovery. This legislation does just that."

Pombo noted that during the life of the 31-year-old Act just 10 of approximately 1300species listed as threatened or endangered have recovered sufficiently to be de-listed.

Major improvements made by TESRA include mandatory requirements for science-based recovery plans when a species is listed as threatened or endangered. It also provides for incentives for voluntary conservation efforts by private property owners and compensation for value lost from restrictions on land use. Some criticized compensating landowners as being too costly but the Congressional Budget Office predicted those costs would be quite modest.

http://www.usnewswire.com/

30 posted on 09/29/2005 6:25:29 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... "To remain silent when they should protest makes cowards of men." -- THOMAS JEFFERSON)
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To: NormsRevenge
ECO-PING
31 posted on 09/29/2005 6:49:07 PM PDT by GreenFreeper (FM me to be added to the Eco-Ping List)
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To: blam; calcowgirl; Carry_Okie; ClearCase_guy; cogitator; CollegeRepublican; ...

ooops forgot the list...


32 posted on 09/29/2005 6:49:31 PM PDT by GreenFreeper (FM me to be added to the Eco-Ping List)
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To: NormsRevenge
I have a copy of the bill, but have been so busy I haven't thoroughly read it. Does it do anything to reverse the SCOTUS interpretation that "habitat modification" that could impair a vital function of the species - such as feeding, reproducing, sheltering - constituted a prohibited "take" under the Act - requiring an incidental take permit. The damned ITP and Habitat Conservation Plan was where the feds exhorted life and limb from the applicant in perpetuity.
33 posted on 09/29/2005 7:16:55 PM PDT by marsh2
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To: NormsRevenge

A re-write is overdue. Let's hope it's a good one.


34 posted on 09/29/2005 7:17:22 PM PDT by newzjunkey (CA: Stop union theft for political agendas with YES on Prop 75!)
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To: NormsRevenge

Some news stories on abuses by environemnetalists:

http://www.neoperspectives.com/environment.htm


'Ranchers revenge' and the jumping mouse one (it didn't exist!) are good.



35 posted on 09/29/2005 7:25:19 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/secondaryproblemsofsocialism.htm)
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To: marsh2

Was it Siskiyou county where the lady went to jail for feeding deer or some critter?


36 posted on 09/29/2005 7:32:42 PM PDT by tubebender (Humboldt County...Where the men are men and so are the women)
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To: alloysteel
There has been a sea change in Washington, and the strong undercurrents are running the other way....

We shall see . . . this is the same gang that couldn't even muster the courage to take PBS off the taxpayer tit, much less the Sierra Club.

37 posted on 09/29/2005 7:36:50 PM PDT by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: marsh2
I have a copy of the bill, but have been so busy I haven't thoroughly read it. Does it do anything to reverse the SCOTUS interpretation that "habitat modification" that could impair a vital function of the species - such as feeding, reproducing, sheltering - constituted a prohibited "take" under the Act - requiring an incidental take permit. The damned ITP and Habitat Conservation Plan was where the feds exhorted life and limb from the applicant in perpetuity.

It was the definition of "take" that exceeded both our treaty obligations and the Congress' legitimate Constitutional authority, all protestations of the SCOTUS to the contrary.

38 posted on 09/29/2005 7:41:57 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Senate won't even look at it until next year and this version doesn't have a prayer.

Amazingly, Democrats actually approved eliminating critical habitat in another House version.


39 posted on 09/29/2005 7:49:28 PM PDT by Gone GF
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To: alloysteel
We may yet drill for oil in Alaska. There is already renewed interest in tapping into resources all along our continental shelf.

We paid good money for Alaska. The least we should do is get our moneys worth.

40 posted on 09/29/2005 8:47:18 PM PDT by EGPWS
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To: NormsRevenge; All
Many Democrats and moderate Republicans said Pombo's bill would eliminate important protections for species and clear the way for large handouts from the government to property owners.

Read this statement slowly 10 times and see if your attitude towards government and politicians improves or not.

41 posted on 09/29/2005 8:52:41 PM PDT by EGPWS
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To: tet68

Typical complete lack of reasoning by a Democrat.


42 posted on 09/29/2005 8:59:46 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: abbi_normal_2; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; AMDG&BVMH; amom; AndreaZingg; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.

List of Ping lists

43 posted on 09/29/2005 9:29:31 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: albertp; Allosaurs_r_us; Abram; AlexandriaDuke; Americanwolf; Annie03; Baby Bear; bassmaner; ...
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
44 posted on 09/29/2005 9:31:23 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: NormsRevenge

BTTT


45 posted on 09/29/2005 9:36:47 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: tubebender

Yes, the lady did go to jail for feeding deer, but it had nothing to do with the ESA. It is illegal to feed wild deer. It causes them to congregate and spreads disease, ecourages dependence and overpopulation. Tame deer are more likely to get shot by hunters.

She had a whole herd of them she fed by hand and watered.


46 posted on 09/30/2005 1:32:01 AM PDT by marsh2
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To: freepatriot32

BTTT


47 posted on 09/30/2005 3:03:35 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: Issaquahking

BTTT


48 posted on 09/30/2005 3:08:59 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: GladesGuru
"mythed off"

I like it! What a great phrase. I'll be sure to add that one to my lingo.

49 posted on 09/30/2005 3:17:04 AM PDT by EBH (Never give-up, Never give-in, and Never Forget)
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To: NormsRevenge
could greatly expand private property rights

There is no need to "expand" property rights; all you need to do is respect them.

50 posted on 09/30/2005 5:41:01 AM PDT by Smile-n-Win (Don't let them take things away from you on behalf of the public good!)
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