Skip to comments.Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays
Posted on 09/30/2005 11:20:25 AM PDT by NormB
Estimates of the numbers of gays in the priesthood vary from 25 percent to 50 percent. About one-third of the 42,500 U.S. priests are members of religious orders.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Does anyone know if the Jesuits are still worth a damn ouside of the US?
"Those crazy Jesuits" Catholic ping!
I went to a Jesuit High School, I treasured the education. But the theology in retrospect left something to be desired. It is time to suppress the Jesuits.
start your own homosexual church
If you do not beleive in the Churches Dogma - do what Lucif --- Luther did and break away!
Do NOT pollute the Catholic Church.
Yess I know Churches should be Church's
My advice to the Catholics is to slice the cancer away with the detachment of a surgeon, until the wound is truly clean. Take no compromises, make no packs.
I have met many, many priests in my 43 years, and have only met one who was a homosexual and who was removed for molestation of a minor.
The issue is, of course, is whether a celibate homosexual can be a Catholic priest. An active homosexual cannot given both the unambiguous teachings of scripture and the fact that priests must ovserve a vow of celibacy.
Given the fact that the Church has stated that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered, I don't see how the Church can allow ordination of a celibate homosexual.
That may seem unfair, but the priesthood is not about fairness. It's about representing the message of Christ and providing example of that message.
I pray for those men who struggle with this issue. But I would no more want a homosexual (celibate or otherwise) to be a priest any more than I would want an cleptomaniac to work the jewelry counter at Nordstroms or a reformed alcoholic to work ina bar.
I tought the only sexual orientation appropriate for a priest was the gift of celibacy.
Good luck with that.
For my part, I have no problem with gay priests and I think the Vatican is wrong in this decision. I'm an ex-Catholic.
I do think there is something wrong though if 25-50% of priests are gay, when only 10% of the general population is gay.
Church didn't state it, God did: See Leviticus and Romans.
Does the church follow all the laws in Leviticus and Romans?
Anyone want to place bets on how long he lasts?
I imagine both percentages are highly exaggerated.
I am sure they wouldn't want you to know. I personally know a guy who went to seminary and dropped out at least in part because he KNEW half of the guys in there were gay fags.
I'm not Catholic, but am curious to know if the Pope has the authority to remove this defender of perversion from the Catholic priesthood? If so, what keeps him from doing it?
The Rev. Gerald Chojnacki, head of the New York Province of the Society of Jesus, said in a letter to his priests that he was asking bishops to tell Vatican officials who are drafting the policy "of the great harm this will cause many good priests and the Catholic faithful."
Chojnacki wrote in the letter, dated Monday, that he had participated in the funerals of several gay Jesuit clergy over the last few years.
"I find it insulting to demean their memory and their years of service by even hinting that they were unfit for priesthood because of their sexual orientation," he wrote.
Chojnacki said he would be working with the Conference of Major Superiors, which represents leaders of religious orders in the United States including the Jesuits, Franciscans and others, and with bishops to fight "for the opportunity of a gay person to say yes to God's call in celibate service of priesthood and chaste religious life."
A priest who supports the protest provided the letter to The Associated Press. A spokesman for the New York province did not respond to a request for comment Friday.
A Vatican official said last week that the upcoming "instruction" from the Vatican's Congregation for Catholic Education will reaffirm the church's belief that homosexuals should not be ordained.
What percentage of priests have a homosexual orientation?
Nobody knows, with any degree of accuracy.
Any discussion of the role of homosexual orientation in the priesthood -- in fact any discussion of clergy abuse itself -- is hampered by a lack of hard, reliable data.
Some estimates of the percentage of current priests with a homosexual orientation:
Analysis of the estimates of others: According to Amanda Ripley of Time Magazine, estimates range from 15% to 50%. 3
According to Bill Blakemore of ABC News, "...nobody knows what percentage of the American priesthood is gay; estimates range from less than 10% to more than 30%." 4
Personal estimates: Richard Sipe, a psychotherapist and former priest, has studied celibacy, chastity, and sexuality in the priesthood for four decades. He has authored three books on the topic. He once estimated that 30% of the priesthood is homosexually oriented. 5 Elsewhere, he is quoted as estimating that between 25% and 45% of American priests are homosexual in orientation. 6 He told the Boston Globe: "If they were to eliminate all those who were homosexually oriented, the number would be so staggering that it would be like an atomic bomb; it would do the same damage to the church's operation...It would mean the resignation of at least a third of the bishops of the world. And it's very much against the tradition of the church; many saints had a gay orientation, and many popes had gay orientations. Discriminating against orientation is not going to solve the problem."
Sister Maryanne Walsh, spokesperson for the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, said that it would it be difficult to find evidence to support these Sipe's estimates of the percentage of gay men in the priesthood. She feels that it is also irrelevant. She said: "Theres no real purpose in saying whether someone is homosexual or heterosexual. The issue is whether they can make a commitment [to chastity]." 6
Bishop Jerome Listecki is an auxiliary bishop in Chicago. He estimates that "perhaps more than 10%" of priests have a homosexual orientation." (Emphasis ours). 5
Father Donald Cozzens, an author, psychologist, and Catholic seminary president says that there is such a high percentage of gay priests in the church that he is concerned that the priesthood is or is becoming a gay profession. 5 In his book, "The Changing Face of the Priesthood," -- published in the year 2000 -- he estimates that 50% of Roman Catholic priests have a homosexual orientation.
A NBC report on chastity and the clergy found that "anywhere from 23 percent to 58 percent" of the Catholic clergy have a homosexual orientation. 7
Author and sociologist James G. Wolfe estimated that 48.5% of priests were gay. 8
Actual surveys: In the Fall of 1999, the Kansas City Star sent a questionnaire to 3,000 priests in the U.S. 73% did not reply. The low response rate could be anticipated. One would expect homosexuals and bisexuals to be reluctant to respond to the questionnaire since it deals with such a sensitive issue, and originated from a newspaper. Homosexual and bisexual priests would probably be less likely to reply to the survey. Among the 801 priests who did reply: 75% said they had a heterosexual orientation;
5% bisexual. 9
During 1990, Rev. Thomas Crangle, a Franciscan priest in Passaic, N.J., mailed a survey to 500 randomly selected priests. Of the 398 responses, about 45% said that they were gay. 10
Conclusion: If we assume that all of the estimates are of equal validity, then about 33% of priests have a homosexual orientation -- about one in three.
How could you tell none of the others was a celibate homosexual?
If a man is a celibate, then he is not homosexual. Homosexuality is an action. Yes, some people have stronger tendencies toward some sins than others, but it's the acting out that makes it a sin.
Right, they've long since given up the ghost in the US...just wondering if the "stormtroopers of the Pope" are still such elsewhere in the world.
Don't hold your breath. Among other things, that would require:
1) The massive number of gay priests to ask themselves honestly why the heck they want to serve in the priesthood of a church which explicitly condemns them, and
2) The Church to confront the fact that no normal heterosexual male wants to sign up for a life of celibacy, and that its choices are a) maintain the status quo and just look the other way, b) continue to require celibacy but crack down harshly on gay priests, and just suck it up as the already critically short supply of priests rapidly gets at least 25% shorter, while Catholics (and everybody else) remark on the huge exodus and the stark evidence it provides of the large percentage of the priesthood which is gay, or c) refute the pronouncements of a long string of Popes who have declared that celibacy is and always will be essential for priests, and start allowing priests to marry.
Actually the percentage of homosexuals (of both genders) in the general population is 2-3%. Not 10%.
The Pope has the authority, but he will not do it. The Pope is not going to remove anybody from the priesthood for simply questioning a non-dogmatic judgment.
Probably the Jesuits' Superior General could do it, and the local bishop could also bar him from preaching or saying mass in his diocese. I don't know canon law well enough to know whether the Pope can personally defrock him...
The Pope says "Tough cookies!"
..and all of them in the U.S.
Three thousand years of sacred history speaks against homosexuality. To hell what this false priest says.
And imagine this is also coming to a fundementalist or pentecostal church near you.
No. Otherwise hetero sexuality is an action, a verb. They are nouns.
Although I do not doubt that some good Jesuit priests exist, the problems in their order are not confined to the US.
I'm not a real good Catholic : )
I would hope so too, but a few nights ago on Catholic radio (EWTN), a caller phoned in with a question about how many seminarians are gay and the priest answering questions had to admit to 25-50%. So those are the church's own figures.
I knew a couple of gay priests in San Francisco. They had no love of God and certainly none for the Church, but found their life as priests "easy." "Where else would I have so much time off?" One of the priests I knew was HIV positive--the other was his lover. Beyond words!
So the church has become an unofficial hangout for gays. Probably a successful target of those pushing the gay agenda. They need to be excised before they bring the whole thing down--which is probably their intention in the first place.
In years past, I believe that some gays became priests for the right reasons and did not have sex. This wouldn't bother me any more than a straight priest with a strong attraction to women giving it up and staying celibate. But today, the gay thing is so massively disordered and destructive that even a celibate gay priest, if any, should probably get the boot.
Why do so many of YOU see rules, tradition, integrity, honor, values, and automatically have to try to DESTROY it?
Not in the least. If I choose to freely join a club or organization, I have the responsibility to live and act by the values that club or organization holds to be important. If I don't, then I may choose to leave that organization.
1.75% of the population is gay. The 10% is disinformation from the fifties that continues to be cited by the gay community.
As my 2y/o grandson would say, "Ohhhhh Noooooooo".
Its not hard to believe when I have seen this move going on in Eccumenical and Evangelical churches since the 1970's -- these are the same churches that marched against the vietnam war, and have been involved in leftist politics -- is it a surprise that they have adopted the left's "patron saints" as their priests?
"Estimates of the numbers of gays in the priesthood vary from 25 percent to 50 percent..."
Estimates that surely were issued by various gay lobbies and the definite minimum of 10 percent of homosexuals in the priesthood. This is abject crap. We cannot have a "rational discussion on homosexuality in the Church!" until we factor OUT all the Catholic bashers, Catholic haters, liberal-agenda and/or gay-agenda opportunists who want nothing more than to tear the institution of the Catholic Church down to BELOW its foundations, then replace it with a more "compassionate" version where at least half the priests will be women and the other half will wear hassocks that end just above their exposed pubic hair and plumbing, because it's really natural, and aren't all men really gay anyway?
The homosexual lobby and the MSM media (hmmm...one in the same?) have convinced a majority of Americans that homosexuals number 10+ percent of the male population is gay, when the real number is less than 3 percent. Now let's do some math. If their 10+ percent is actually less than one third of that...and if the article's 40 percent of gay priests is reduced by a bit over two-thirds, we arrive at the 10 percent or so of gay priests I cited above.
Scientific proof that the Catholic Church, for all its sins, still really scares the crap out of the Godless moral relativists, and that they'll do anything to chip more credibility away from it.
And for those here who would bring up "all the incidents of sexual molestation" among priests, always remember that the media created an hysterical whirlwind on this issue much like they did with the McMartin preschool case in California a while back.
Yes, there are predatory priests who will burn in hell for their sins and broken trust. And for every one of them there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of priests who have to go through their days knowing that many people, Catholic or not, think that they're actually homosexual child molesters. But they keep going, literally doing the Lord's Work.
Remember: the general impression, especially among non-Catholics, is that Catholic priests are overwhelmingly gay predators. Yet, even during the top of the media frenzy, the actual percentage of accused American priests was less than ONE PERCENT. You would have thought it was every damned one of them.
I am grateful for our new pope, who is pushing us back to a more conservative Church.
"Celibate homosexual" is an oxymoron.
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