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To: Dumb_Ox
"What I do have a problem with in Darwinism is the blatant effort to paper over Darwin's muddled, and sometimes downright evil, philosophical claims that too often accompany his better-formed scientific speculations."

What evil claims?

" Darwin's cousin, "respectable Victorian gentleman" Francis Galton, was the founder of the eugenics movement."

Galton had the same prejudices as the vast majority of people at the time. His view of eugenics was that the better *fit* should be encouraged to have more children. It wasn't about forced sterilization or the forced segregation of the *less fit*. It was still wrong, but it's conclusions about the relative superiority of different races and social classes was just a reflection of the prevailing views throughut Victorian educated society. Non-evolutionists came to the same conclusions but just used different arguments (many times biblical). It's almost impossible to find a non-racist from that time.

"Karl Marx actually asked Charles Darwin if he could dedicate Das Kapital to him, and Darwin only refused because he knew Marx's patent atheism would upset his wife."

That and the fact that he was a free-market whig who didn't like socialism. It must also be remembered that at the time , Marx and Engels were second tier socialists who were not widely know outside of socialist circles. It wasn't until the 20th century that Marx's name became widely known.

" Darwin himself was the first Social Darwinist, as well, but I won't take the time to plug in my sources."

Now you have him responsible for ruthless laizie-faire capitalism, whereas before he was responsible for Marx. The term is more correctly called Social Spencerism, as Spencer was the originator and principal defender. Darwin hardly spoke a word about applying evolution to anything but biology.

"Darwin himself latched on to the execrable Herbert Spencer's term "survival of the fittest."

The mistake was in the statement's clumsiness, not in any evil consequences of it's implications. The survival of the fittest simply means that those who are best adapted to their present environment (including both living and non-living aspects) will on average leave more offspring than those less adapted. It is not a political statement as Darwin used it. Spencer did poorly word it though, and it is regrettable that Darwin chose to include it in later versions of The Origin of Species.


All of this of course has nothing to do with whether the ToE is correct. Even if some people abuse a theory doesn't make it wrong. Arguments from Consequences is a logical fallacy.
83 posted on 10/07/2005 8:07:47 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
That should have been *Laissez-faire*. I hit post before when I meant to hit preview.
84 posted on 10/07/2005 8:09:19 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

You're obviously a hagiographer of Darwin and the Victorian upper class. Never make a saint out of a scientist.


86 posted on 10/08/2005 12:52:19 PM PDT by Dumb_Ox (Be not Afraid. "Perfect love drives out fear.")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
"Galton had the same prejudices as the vast majority of people at the time. His view of eugenics was that the better *fit* should be encouraged to have more children. It wasn't about forced sterilization or the forced segregation of the *less fit*. It was still wrong, but it's conclusions about the relative superiority of different races and social classes was just a reflection of the prevailing views throughut Victorian educated society. Non-evolutionists came to the same conclusions but just used different arguments (many times biblical). It's almost impossible to find a non-racist from that time."

You're using an awful lot of lipstick for that pig.....
For anyone else curious, try this link: The One For Which Excuses Are Being Made

111 posted on 12/16/2005 6:15:41 PM PST by Tench_Coxe
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