Highway sound barrier at intersection of I-10 and I-12 in Baton Rouge, La. (courtesy soundfighter.com)
Posted on 10/10/2005 11:27:42 PM PDT by Dan Evans
As discussion of erecting a security fence along U.S. borders with Mexico and Canada heats up, some analysts say it's possible Washington could economically erect thousands of miles of barrier to keep out illegal aliens, smugglers and terrorists, for about half of what the Pentagon is spending a month to fight the war on terror.
The idea, they say, is to erect a structure similar to barrier walls built along highways to reduce sound. They are sturdy, tall, not easily scaled and, most attractively, affordable.
Plus, analysts say, a wall would dramatically reduce outside threats.
The Federal Highway Administration says most highway sound barriers are constructed of concrete or masonry block, range from 3-5 meters [9-16 feet] in height, and cost between $175 and $200 a square meter.
According to the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials, there are "more than 2,630 linear miles of sound barriers" along U.S. highways, constructed at a cost of some $1.4 billion.
By comparison, the Pentagon is spending about $3.9 billion a month in Iraq and Afghanistan, not counting rebuilding costs, the Associated Press has reported.
One group, WeNeedAFence.com, is advocating the construction of a "state-of-the-art fence" along the entire U.S.-Mexico border, a plan it says would dramatically reduce illegal immigration.
The group points to the fact that similar security fences in Israel have reduced terrorist attacks there by as much as 95 percent in some regions.
Lee Plank, executive vice president and chief operating officer of Diamond Manufacturing Company in Wyoming, Pa., says his company has not been approached about border security fences, but, he said, they would be a good idea.
"I think they'd have to be about 10 feet high," he told WND, and would cost "about $636,000 a mile" to build. That's about $1.27 billion for 2,000 miles of border fence, similar to the government's figures.
Plank, who says his company specializes in sound-absorbing corrugated metal walls, said a border security fence "would save a lot on manpower."
"It would be interesting to see them on the borders," he added.
Mike Flick of Oldcastle Precast Group, a nationwide leader in both highway and security fencing, told WND the idea of border fencing is certainly doable, but the design, depth and other particulars would need to be worked out.
Some have criticized the idea of a border fence.
"The United States needs a better immigration policy, not a fence along the border with Mexico that won't do anything to protect us anyway," says an editorial in the Modesto Bee. "The proposed fence is simply a sign of frustration with illegal immigration. Our politicians need to come up with workable solutions to the problems of illegal immigration and national security."
WeNeedAFence.com officials say a border fence makes sense in this day and age.
"The problem is not merely the number of illegal immigrants. In addition to the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants from Central and South America, there are several hundreds, perhaps thousands, of illegal aliens from countries that sponsor terrorism or harbor terrorists entering the United States each year across our border with Mexico. Thus, it is a national security issue as well as an immigration issue," the group says on its website.
Officials at the Department of Homeland Security also believe in erecting new fences or strengthening existing ones as a way to bolster security. Last month DHS quietly implemented a pair of measures aimed to bring regions of the southwestern border under control
One measure "makes it easier for officials to remove non-Mexican illegal immigrants, popularly called 'other than Mexicans' or OTMs," U.S. News & World Report said, "while another adds yet one more level of fortification to a metal wall stretching along parts of the border."
"They clearly did this when no one was looking," complained Tim Edgar, an immigration specialist with the American Civil Liberties Union. "And I'm worried DHS is trying to set new norms for how we treat immigrants in the United States."
Border Patrol agents have praised fences as a means to deter border-jumping. One San Diego-area agent, speaking on anonymity, told WND fences constructed there have "dramatically" reduced the incidents of illegal immigration, though, the agent conceded, many immigrants have merely moved inland, east of the area where the San Diego fence line ended, to sneak into the country.
Highway sound barrier at intersection of I-10 and I-12 in Baton Rouge, La. (courtesy soundfighter.com)
ping
It's baffling that no one thought of this before.
It would sure help keep the noise down. Darned noisy Mexicans.
As long as they put a minefield next to it, and razor wire on top, and guard towers every 200 meters, and a fifty meter shark infested moat on the back of it, I'm in.
it should only be one in a line of defenses.
For the ideal solutions, they should deal with the israelis and have them consult on how to build a serious border wall.
And it could be done by just cutting a fraction of the pork from the budget.
(muffled response) hehe
Sound barriers are too thin. Minutes with an oxyacetylene torch and they're in.
>>>It's baffling that no one thought of this before.
A sound barrier fence baffling...dude...that is like so profound... :)
Let's see 'em try.
But what if Mexico invents the ladder?
Mexico inventing anything useful is about as likely as France winning a war.AWB
Welding torch would be no good if the fence is solid grouted reinforced concrete block, as proposed. Could even use Mexican illegals to build it. They are very proficient in the concrete/masonry trades, so let them choose - either 6 months in prison or join a chain gang of masons for two months. We just have to pay them peanuts (prison wages - the precedent for this has been set long ago).
Frances only military success.... the French revolution, and that at best was a draw...
"The Federal Highway Administration says most highway sound barriers are constructed of concrete or masonry block, "
I don't think you can go through concrete with a torch. In any case, barriers are like minefields. They are intended to channel the enemy so it is easier to pick them off as they come through. The fence would be used in conjunction with armed forces and surveillance drones.
Sound barriers along Interstates really PI$$ me off.
People buy houses along the freeway, then complain about the noise. Are they that stupid that they did not notice the freeway before buying?
The freeways here in Utah are rapidly being lined with barriers, effectively blocking the view of our wonderful mountains. And then they have the gall to put a raised mural of mountains embossed in the concrete.
BTW, they can put up a couple of miles of highway barriers in a day. Whole machines drive in the posts, and the concrete slab is slipped between the posts.
You forgot the claymores.
It will slow down the process until you get your rifle on target.
In addition to building a new wall, why not station on both borders the tens of thousands of troops that we are bringing home from Germany, South Korea and Japan?
Hmmm, ever been in the steel industry. Torches are very ineffective to stone or concrete unless you want to heat the product and lose your eyesite.
I've been in the steel industry for 40 years.
You CANNOT burn through a stone wall unless you fire a missile. I'd like to see someone give it a try. Have you done this? I will give to you a site of AISI, ASTM sites where you may want to look at the chemical and physical specification of melting points and penetration values.
Do your homework. *rolling eyes at ignorance*
"The problem is not merely the number of illegal immigrants. In addition to the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants from Central and South America, there are several hundreds, perhaps thousands, of illegal aliens from countries that sponsor terrorism or harbor terrorists entering the United States each year across our border with Mexico. Thus, it is a national security issue as well as an immigration issue."
Let's build a fence if that will at least deter them.
A lot of FReepers went to a public school, and you know what that means. LOL
Sometimes you just want to scream when you read some of the ignorant posts here on FR. Post whores are the bane of all message boards, and unfortunately they are often uninformed or just plain dumb.
No doubt your typical border jumper carries one of those around with him ~ but still better would be C-4, or maybe a bulldozer ~ take out a mile or so at a whack.
Still, your casuals will be disuaded, and all will be slowed up. The wall does not have to be perfect.
LMAO ~ truly, Mexican masons are top of the line folks.
Millions of Americans have been displaced from their property by these highways without just compensation ~ or any compensation at all, due to mismanagement of the sound envelope.
A good case can be made for shutting down the system until the barriers are built, or the impacted people compensated.
Don't you think we need that here first?
They should give the contract to an East German company.
That seems to be the way this is all headed. A wall would never pass the environmental impact report stage - too many animals would be impeded and the usual suspects would throw a fit.
As long as the sharks have laser beams on their heads, then I'm in.
Don't be so negative. You are speaking of relative and even marginal degree of corruption and initiative that aren't really applicable to the problem in Mexico.
In addition to the fence, I'd place about 50-100 feet of razor ribbon underground the entire length of the fence. On the American side I'd have the military perform their patrols, plus another fence (150 in from the wall) approx., 50 feet high and 50 feet underground and take broken windshields and other sharp objects and bury them under the fence and wall as well.
Next do a round up of all the illegals in these united States and deport them ALL.
The Feds mandate the stupid walls even if the locals don't want them. I know quite a few people who liked living next to the freeway, didn't mind the noise and were really furious when the walls were put up over their objections.
Living next to a freeway wall is like living inside a prison yard.
That said, most of these barriers would be entirely insufficient as a border fence.
ping
When local, state and federal officials wink at massive illegal immigration I would say that is a serious and possibly fatal measure of corruption.
...and English as a first language.
.....If we make it difficult and expensive enough and if the penalties are high enough they will decide it isn't worth it and stop coming......
In my view, this is wishful thinking. The concept is valid but the intense pressure makes it infeasible. The enforcement would result in war and if there is going to be war it is better to invade and get it over with.
The last American General who conqured Mexico City and the Halls of Montezuma was given the job of King of Mexico but he turned it down. A similar situation might exist today where conquering Americans are welcome if they throw off the yokes of opresion.
"My political judgment says annex Mexico and establish a corruption free territorial government that promotes individual excellence and personal initiative"
How about establishing one here, first ;)
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