Posted on 10/11/2005 9:32:46 PM PDT by Enchante
"[the audience]...ought to consider the possibility that a year from now [by early 2003], if we went in the direction we were going, the land to the south of Turkey [i.e., Iraq] might well be a chemical, biological, and nuclear wasteland."
(Excerpt) Read more at talkingpointsmemo.com ...
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/wilson.interview.pdf
This is for our historical record of the CIA Leak/Plame/Wilson matter, but it's unbearably long-winded and pompous, even for gasbag Joe Wilson, so I doubt any but absolute die-hards would wade through it all. Main theme is to reinforce how incredibly self-important an egomaniac Joe Wilson is. However, he describes a PRE-war presentation he gave in which he made a VERY important assertion about Saddam turning Iraq into a "chemical, biological, and nuclear wasteland" if we invade. This shows once again that before the war the brilliant ex-Ambassador-married-to-CIA-WMD-expert did not doubt whether Saddam had WMDs, but only what we should do about them.
He thinks he's Henry Kissinger, geostrategic thinker, but in reality he is Elmer Fudd!
I think this all really most comes down to Wilson shrieking at the Bush administration "HOW DARE YOU NOT LISTEN TO ME! ME, ME, ME!!!" Of course, he would say that's because he knew so much better than evil neo-cons how to run foreign policy, but I think it's really petty personal pique. Especially when you consider that before the war he said in public several times he believed Saddam had a variety of WMDs - the debate for Wilson was what to do about it, not whether Saddam had them.
However, there is one very significant point: on p. 24 (of an endless 26 page transcript) he is talking about a presentation he gave early in 2002, and he expresses little doubt that Saddam may well have chem, bio, AND NUCLEAR weaponry:
"...ought to consider the possibility that a year from now [by early 2003], if we went in the direction we were going, the land to the south of Turkey [i.e., Iraq] might well be a chemical, biological, and nuclear wasteland."
As we saw with other appearances and articles from Wilson between Oct. 2002 - Jan. 2003, he expressed no serious doubt before the war that Saddam had WMDs and quite possibly all 3 major categories of WMDs. Before the war, Wilson only debated best MEANS of disarming Saddam, and advocated what he called "muscular disarmament" meaning somehow convince Saddam to disarm without a real threat of force to back us up.....
Reminds of an item in a little novelty book of Famous Insults I once possessed in physical form.
A minister, soliciting praise, asked a famous parishioner how he liked the sermon. "Well, it was short," came the reply.
"Then at least I wasn't tedious."
"Oh, but you were!"
good find.
The field manual of every foreign intelligence service no doubt has a section titled "Unwitting Dupe" listing Joe Wilson's address and phone number.
Yup, "unwitting dupe" is one good way to describe him. I can think of a few more unmentionables.....
For the record, I did wade through every bit of this interview and I am surprised this guy's wife is not a suicide by now. If I had to listen to someone like that every day of my life..... AAAAAEEEEEIIIIIAAAAHHH......
Don't you think he had an obvious source for his prior belief that Iraq had WMD? Pillow talk with his wife the WMD expert, maybe? It boggles my mind that these people would rather do anything to promote Democrat power than to do the right thing to protect and legitimize America itself.
Thanks!
YES, that's something I speculated about long ago on a similar thread when we were talking about 2-3 other appearances and articles between Oct. 2002 and March 2003 in which Joe Wilson expressed a rather high degree of confidence that Saddam had and WOULD USE a variety of WMDs. Where did Wilson derive his high level of confidence that Saddam still had WMDs? BEFORE the war Wilson's argument was not that the whole WMD issue was overblown, it was that Saddam would USE his WMDs if we attacked, so better to pursue what Wilson called "muscular disarmament" which was supposed to have a credible threat of force to make Saddam comply. However, due to all the Euro-crapweasels such as French leaders saying they would NEVER support a use of force, the whole "muscular disarmament" program was dead from the start.
Anyway, yes, I do seriously wonder how the husband of a supposedly leading WMD expert with the CIA's team tasked with that subject had such confidence that Saddam did still retain WMDs.... part of the gross dishonesty of the libs, especially Wilson, is that they have so distorted the whole public discussion of WMDs and Iraq.... and they claim to be the ones so concerned about deliberative democracy, etc.
Bookmarked. Thank you.
Joe took the Islamicists' side,
When he said that the President lied.
Since the Times spread Joe's tale,
Please put them in jail
And, certainly, Joe should be fried
I'm stumped. I thought the forged documents came to light only in late 2002. Perhaps it wasn't the forged documents themselves, but an Italian report addressing them, passed to CIA in early 2002?
And Wilson said to Talking Points Memo:
“...TPM: And, just to be clear, at this time (--when he traveled to Niger in 2002--), you hadn't seen these documents that turned out to be forgeries?
WILSON: No, I hadn't. I had just been briefed on a memorandum of agreement covering the sale....
Was there another "memorandum of agreement?" Or maybe the Italian report was received, and related to Wilson in part?
Italy blames France for Niger uranium claim
Particularly active are the Washington Monthly (Joshua Marshall and Laura Rozen) and the Talking Points Memo group. They announced being on the trail of "shocking documents" which would prove a meeting in Rome in the winter of 2002 between Ledeen - one of the most known neoconservatives close to Bush - Ghorbanifar and Iranian dissidents. They were allegidlly joined by the Italian Defence Minister, Antonio Martino, and the head of the Italian Military Secret Services, Niccolò Pollari (indicated trough rank but not named), as well as members of the American governemnt. Basically on that occassion all was organised. Its a pity then that the American Congress made public the fact that it was Sismi who informed both the Italian and American governments in regards to these meetings (information that obviously did not include the two Italians) of which not even the american embassy know of. The meetings resulted quite innocent, emphasized only in order to bla[c]ken Bush and his team. In reality the French did everything possibile to promote the idea of commerce between Niger and Iraq. Niger belongs to them.
"The Story That Didn’t Run", my Post 40
For reference I'll post what the article says on Marshall's role:
“This is like living in a Kafka novel,” said Joshua Micah Marshall, a Washington Monthly contributing writer and a Web blogger who had been collaborating with “60 Minutes” producers on the uranium story. “Here we had a very important, well-reported story about forged documents that helped lead the country to war. And then it gets bumped by another story that relied on forged documents.”
A quick review of what I have on Marshall turns up the following:
--Joe Wilson's book The Politics of Truth quotes Marshall favorably on p. 368, calling Marshall "the author of one of the most compulsivlely reading weblogs ("blogs") on the Internet, Talkingpointsmemo.com" and enlisting some posts from Marshall's blog to support the contention that "not only did the administration blur the distinction between imminent threat and grave and gathering danger, it actually equated the two, dangerously lowering the bar for future action."
--A couple items mentioning Marshall and Wilson are linked here: Democrats.com:
Talking Points Memo by Joshua Micah Marshall September 21st, 2003
As of about six this evening in Washington, DC we got the first of what I'd call serious gusts. But so far not too much more than that. In any case, neither wind nor rain nor any of that other stuff stops TPM. So here, as promised, is part one of our interview with Ambassador Joseph Wilson.
Mark A. R. Kleiman
Josh Marshall reports (*), without saying more, that the CIA appears to be investigating the revelation of Valerie Plame Wilson's identity. No more than one should have expected, but good news nonetheless.
[Note: Kleiman's site has lots more Marshall stuff from August 2003 if you click on the link.]
"Court Declines Case of Reporters in Leak Case (Plame Case)", Shermy's Post 144
He gave the glasses story to Talking Points Memo and Talon News. He even restated it in his Letter responding to the Senate Intel report. His wife as a source of info is as much uncommented upon as Pincus' (supposedly) is.
Yes. In the June 14,2003 EPIC speech which Fedora trnascribed and is a thread here, he also said he wouldn't be surprised if we found nuclear weapons in Iraq and justified Iraq's possession of them.
Bump
Pinz
How about a 'witting dupe' instead? I think this lib, a former ambassador, is a concious agent of the left wing of the Dem party.
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