Posted on 10/13/2005 11:37:42 AM PDT by madprof98
Yours sounds like an unbelievably cruel post. Dementia and Alzheimer's is a different ballgame altogether from ordinary illness. I have been to the facilities that care for and 'hold' these patients safe. Yes, there are times of stress for all involved, but there really is no other choice and those who have to deal with it do not deserve any scorn.... Take that to God.
Micromanage? Hardly. The principal consideration here is the prevention of killing, which is covered by the “inalienable right to life” principle, the protection of which is the basic purpose of all government, including ours.
According to the legal and political principles upon which this nation was founded, there exists no private right to homicide. And that has included, in all of our state criminal law codes, no right to self-homicide (suicide).
Why? Partly because so many potential suiciders are depressed and weak. Depression is a treatable mental health condition; and loneliness is an emotional/social condition. not a disease. Death is not a treatment for depression and loneliness; in fact, death is not a legitimate treatment for any condition, since, from a medical point of view, nobody is “healthier” dead.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. You absolutely have to do all you can to make sure that the depression is not driving their decisions. Hopefully the right meds and better nutrition will help. In my experience, a lot of old people don't eat very well, and this contributes to their poor morale and their sharpness. They also can turn into hermits, which also hurts the emotional health. Going into a good nursing home can be a lifesaver in that regard. Also, we tend to complain to the ones who will listen. You can see that with all age groups. Maybe they tell you they don't want to live, and as soon as you leave, they are playing cards or going to an activity forgetting all about what they just said to you. It is possible.
I am just saying that if depression has been handled to the degree possible, and they don't want any more medical intervention, can we even legally honor that wish?
I dont know what we can do, for those who have no one to speak for them...so in that sense, you are right, there does need to be some law, to assure that the correct thing is being done for them...
I will tell you this...whenever an elderly person comes into a nursing home, they have to make a declaration, as to whether or not they want a DNR...now, if they are competent at the time, the nursing home will have them make that decision....usually the whole matter of what a DNR entails is explained, in usually quite graphic details...and then the person and his family make a decision, and sign papers making their wishes known...
I do know, in the nursing homes where I have worked, almost all elderly residents do have a DNR posted in their medical files...the elderly resident who does not have a DNR is the rarity...
She is supporting and encouraging others to commit suicide, a mortal sin. If she was a Catholic, she excommunicated herself by that act, unless or until she repents (and takes the required penitential steps). As far as the 82 y.o lady, none of us know the mind of God. I'd like to think He would not judge her too harshly under those circumstances. But from what we know... it's not good. Remember, Catholics don't believe that death is your last chance, so there is hope even after -- I find comfort in that.
It sounds like you work in one of the better nursing homes (it can't be too bad, since you're working there). Many of these places, especially the ones catering to people who are completely dependent on Medicare, are staffed by people with criminal records who don't have the least concern for the patients, and sometimes abuse them in the most vile ways. The more the government forces elderly people into unwanted extended medical care -- often starting out by charging all the bills to the unwilling patient, and then switching to billing Medicare after the process has rendered the patient destitute -- the more people will end up destitute early on in their post-independent years, since they won't have inherited anything from their parents, because their parents' assets were wiped out by this process. And thus more and more people will end up in nursing homes that are real houses of horror. And the government won't mind, because it provides "jobs" for lots of people who are clearly unemployable in the real world.
Self pity? My father was a diabetic. Water around his heart and in his legs, blind, picked up something off the floor and broke bones in his back so was bed-ridden. But NOT suffering from self pity or senile dementia. He died peacefully in bed, sipping orange juice and listening visiting hospices workers singing and playing guitar.
You can make your life miserable or make it a joy to you and others.
Where did she do this?
And in that case, may sane people prevail, not wild-eyed idealogues on either side. I'm very intent that those expressing ~no~ understanding or common sense on threads like these be kept from running the show.
What a beautiful post on how to treat your parents with dignity and respect in their dying hour. They are ADULTS in which they deserve to have some say about their own medical treatment. They should never be "locked away for their own good" as that one person did, how horrible! That person just makes me think "you don't know what's good for you, only I know what's good for you". How utterly selfish to force her parents into this situation. I feel nothing but sorrow for them to be treated in this degrading manner of disrespet.
I have a feeling that those that are giving you a bit of a hard time have never had to deal with an elderly relative that has dementia. Often, they give out mentally well before their physical abilities diminish. It is quite dangerous to let them live on their own. They do things like wonder off and get lost, try to drive, or leave the burner on the stove on, endangering not only themslelves but also possibly endangering neighbors. In my opinion, it is neglectful to let them live like this. They don't remember to eat, bathe, take medicine, etc. If it goes on long enough, then they forget HOW to do these things altogether.
They just need someone to watch over them and make sure these necessary daily activities are accomplished. That will keep them on their feet as long as possible. To me, it is no different than doing what one has to insure a child is safe and well cared for. Your parents saw to it that you had medical care, an education, were clean, fed, and didn't let you do anything and everything you wanted to do. You were a child and did not have the ability to make certain decisions. They didn't let you skip school, they didn't let you eat ice cream instead of a good dinner, they didn't let you play in the street .... I could go on and on. They are now in their twilight years, and due to the slipping cogs in their brains, they are no longer able to see clearly, remember what they had for lunch (or even if they ate at all), or make lucid decisions. You are doing for them what they did for you when you were a child. Good daughter!
Caution, caution, the situations are very different.
Does that tell you anything?
It would have been wise for this daughter to get psychiatric help for her mother and remove all medication that wasn't being used as prescribed.
Assisted suicide is NOT the same as allowing someone who is already dying to die in peace. It is killing a human being who is alive and not dying.
This is one slippery slope. Not a far reach for older folks who fear being a burden on their children to ask a doctor to kill them,not a far reach for children who feel the burden of caring for an elderly parent do the same. Or worse, there would be financial motives.
Yes, but who says they have dementia? Only the word of the person who locked them away. I find it odd that both parents suffer from dementia.
Would they still think end of life decisions should be personal when if it their 16 year old daughter or do they think the government should intervene only when they think it should?
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