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Mariotti: Just call it another strike against baseball
Chicago Suntimes Online ^ | 10/14/2005 | Jay Mariotti

Posted on 10/14/2005 7:57:37 AM PDT by nikos1121

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To: nikos1121
Did he "call" him out? Everyone, catcher hitter and umpire, agree he never did.

Frogjerk said "Just because the umpire calls the third strike and an out does not mean the batter cannot advance to first on an error by the catcher."

I thought the ump signaled a strike with the arm outstretched and signaled the out with the clenched fist.

Maybe I misunderstood. Maybe the individuality of the different umpires adds to the charm of the game. Maybe we should put microphones on the umpires so that everybody knows what going on.

101 posted on 10/14/2005 10:45:03 AM PDT by oldbrowser (A living, breathing constitution is a usurpation of the people's sovereignty)
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To: Eagles Talon IV

I remember a lot of sex in Ozzie & Harriet esp down at Rick frat house and at Dave's law office.


102 posted on 10/14/2005 10:47:08 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: youngjim

I agree. Some FRs are saying the ump didn't follow the play. He clearly did.


103 posted on 10/14/2005 10:49:11 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: nikos1121
This is what more then one player has said. Whether it is part of the umpires duty to call this out is something I don't know. However if it has been a practice in the past then players will come to depend on it and it therefore becomes a defacto rule
104 posted on 10/14/2005 11:13:06 AM PDT by Eagles Talon IV
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To: nikos1121
Hmmm, come to think of it I DO remember in one episode Ozzie actually sat on Harriets bed while she was actually in the bed. Pretty racy, that.
105 posted on 10/14/2005 11:15:20 AM PDT by Eagles Talon IV
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To: Eagles Talon IV

I loved that show. Saddest day when Rick died in that playcrash. Did they ever determine what happened?


106 posted on 10/14/2005 11:17:56 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: Eagles Talon IV

I loved that show. Saddest day when Rick died in that planecrash. Did they ever determine what happened?


107 posted on 10/14/2005 11:17:59 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: nikos1121
Apparently their was an electrical fire in the cockpit. The plane was a DC3 or as it was called in the military a "Goony Bird" Probably one of the most stable and easiest to fly aircraft ever built.

There were claims made that he was coked up when he died but who knows. He wasn't the pilot in any case so it doesn't matter.

It saddened me also since I grew up with his music.
108 posted on 10/14/2005 11:27:28 AM PDT by Eagles Talon IV
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To: SAJ

The situation where the fielding team must produce a fourth out in an inning or else suffer adverse consequences?

I'm guessing men on first and third, two outs. Ground ball, thrown to second where a tag is applied to the runner rather that the second baseman or shortstop creating a force out by stepping on the base (actually, more likely a ground ball to the second baseman who tags the runner without there being a throw). Runner on third reaches home plate (big lead or speedy runner) before the tag is applied to the runner at second.

Third out? Yes, but the run scores unless the team in the field throws the batter out at first base, which is the fourth "out."

How did I do?


109 posted on 10/14/2005 12:14:13 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred)
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To: nikos1121

Those of us who are Cub fans don't like him much, either.


110 posted on 10/14/2005 12:16:51 PM PDT by Uncle Vlad
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To: Eagles Talon IV

The pilots survived the crash. They locked the passenger out of the cockpit. The plane was in flames when it landed. The fire was in the cabin. Autopsies, according to the Nelson family, did not reveal drugs but if you see photos of Rick during that time he has all the appearance of heavy drug use. Sad. Some of his songs were truly ahead of their time, and his close friend and guitarist, James Burton went on to be a top studio guitarist for Elvis and others.


111 posted on 10/14/2005 12:24:59 PM PDT by nikos1121
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To: nikos1121

Interesting. Do you think maybe they were freebasing? I was unaware the pilots survived. They only thing I liked from him after the Lonesome Town/Hello Mary Lou era was Garden Party. It's sad though, he was so young.


112 posted on 10/14/2005 1:13:08 PM PDT by Eagles Talon IV
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To: Scoutmaster
Right idea, but the notion of any major league player not being able to tag the runner on first out before the runner on third crosses the plate is dubious, and the notion that he wouldn't throw to either second or first instead is practically inconceiveable. However, that's all moot. In your example, the fielder tags the runner AND throws out the batter-runner. In how many seconds, eh? (g!)Clever idea, but no cigar though.

The actual answer to the question has occurred, most memorably in a playoff game between Houston and Philadelphia. It goes like this:

Runners on 1st and 3rd, 1 out. Batter hits a sinking line drive into middling deep right center field. Neither runner thinks the RF will catch it, and both runners take off. RF does catch the ball, two outs. Runner formerly on 3rd crosses the plate before the RF's throw to 1st base doubles off the runner formerly on 1st. Three outs, right? However, if the infield position players of the fielding team all cross the baselines into foul territory without first making the appeal play at 3rd base for the runner leaving too soon, the run will be (must be, by rule) counted by the home plate umpire. Therefore, the 4th out is actually necessary.

This episode is recounted in the late Ron Luciano's book, 'The Umpire Strikes Back', and is an absolutely killer trivia q for the would-be ''rules expert'' one occasionally runs across... heh heh heh.

113 posted on 10/14/2005 2:17:49 PM PDT by SAJ
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To: Eagles Talon IV

David said that they weren't, that it was a faulty heater.


114 posted on 10/14/2005 3:06:51 PM PDT by nikos1121
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To: nikos1121
I would think that it would be charged as strike out and passed ball would it now?

This is a mistake most people make. It's more than likely a strike out and a wild pitch. Generally speaking, if the ball hits the ground before it gets to the catcher, the official scorer will score it a wild pitch.

115 posted on 10/14/2005 3:10:47 PM PDT by AmishDude (If Miers isn't qualified, neither are you and you have no right to complain about any SC decision.)
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To: nikos1121

Mariotti is about 4' 8, a good example of a person with a Napoleanic complex, and a moron. You know damn well he got his ass kicked all over the school yard back in the day.

Besides, he writes for the Sun-Times.


116 posted on 10/14/2005 3:42:41 PM PDT by toddlintown (Your papers please.)
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To: frogjerk

"This supposed "bad call" by the umpire did not enable the pinch runner to steal second and the next batter to smack a double..."

Amen...and if the rest of you don't like it...tough. It's over. GET OVER IT!

If was hard enough for us to get ex-White Soxer Graffinino to blow that play in Game 2 with Boston...


117 posted on 10/14/2005 3:46:49 PM PDT by toddlintown (Your papers please.)
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To: wolf24

"Besides bashing the White Sox, he also enjoys bashing the White Sox fans, the Cubs, the Cubs fans, the Bears, the Bears fans, the Rush, the Rush fans, Northwestern, Northwestern fans............

He's really versatile."

Ya got that, but then again, it's the Sun-Times. Try reading Roeper if you really want to pike.


118 posted on 10/14/2005 3:48:29 PM PDT by toddlintown (Your papers please.)
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To: toddlintown

"pike"="puke"


119 posted on 10/14/2005 3:49:10 PM PDT by toddlintown (Your papers please.)
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To: SAJ

Fascinating -- I'll have to remember that one.

However, my situation also results in needing the fourth out. Is it likely? No (neither was Dick "Dr. Strangeglove" Stuart, the worst fielding third baseman of all time, turning an unassisted triple play). There is a chance, however, that the man on first misses a hit and run sign, and the man on third doesn't and breaks for the plate. Or, the man on third mistakenly thinks he saw a hit and run sign.

If the second baseman bobbles the ball just a little, or it's a slow roller, I don't think it's "dubious" that that a runner on third would reach home before the batter is thrown out. It happens all the time, particularly with two outs and a full count, where the runners are breaking with the pitch. Men on third reach home before the batter is thrown out at first on a regular basis -- a slow roller, a bobbled ball, or one of those strange shots that hits the pitcher's rubber and caroms off in a different direction. A chopper off the plate.

A second baseman tagging the runner and throwing out the batter at first? I'll bet it happens once a week during the MLB season. I've certainly seen it many times over the last forty years of watching major league baseball. Why risk the throw to second if the runner's right there to tag?

I think I deserve a cigar, if nothing else for ingenuity. It may be unlikely, but my scenario is possible. As you requested, it's a case within the rules of baseball where the team in the field must register the fourth out or suffer the consequences. The fourth out is actually necessary.

With 162 games a year and so many teams, there are a boatload of things that happen rarely in baseball. However, they happen just because they're possible. The fly ball that hits a bird, the third baseman who makes FOUR errors on the same play. It's happened.

Let's not forget that the first major leaguer to hit a home run in Canada in a MBL game was Dal Maxville, all-glove, no-hit shortstop for the Cardinals. We're talking about a man who never hit above the Mendoza line. Weird things happen in baseball, much weirder than my scenario.

Your scenario is great, absolutely killer, and I will remember it for trivia use. Mine may be unlikely, but it is possible, and it is a case where the fielding team must register the fourth out or suffer the consequences. Right? It's unlikely, but not impossible. The facts work within the rules of baseball. I think it is a valid answer to your question.


120 posted on 10/14/2005 3:50:16 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred)
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