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Pullman attacks Narnia film plans
BBC News ^ | 10.16.2005

Posted on 10/17/2005 1:44:44 PM PDT by DoctorRansom

Author Philip Pullman has attacked plans to turn The Chronicles of Narnia into a movie series, calling CS Lewis' books "racist" and "misogynistic".

The first film in the series - The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe - is due to be released in December.

His Dark Materials author Pullman said the 1950s stories were "reactionary".

"If the Disney corporation wants to market this film as a great Christian story, they'll just have to tell lies about it," he told The Observer.

[. . .]

But Pullman said the Narnia books contained "a peevish blend of racist, misogynistic and reactionary prejudice" and "not a trace" of Christian charity.

"It's not the presence of Christian doctrine I object to so much as the absence of Christian virtue," he added.

"The highest virtue - we have on the authority of the New Testament itself - is love, and yet you find not a trace of that in the books."

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: atheism; cslewis; moviereview; narnia; philippullman; pullman
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To: DoctorRansom

> we smile only at the discomfort of disgruntled Atheists here

Very mature.


101 posted on 10/18/2005 11:22:48 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: orionblamblam
Kick a rock.
And?

Ah. Creationism.
Yes?

The term isn't nearly as stigmatized as you may believe. Check a few polls -- and a few of the actual arguments in the article I've included.

Meanwhile, I'm more and more perplexed by the naive people who assume that everyone on FreeRepublic is conservative and the place is monolithically closed to disagreement. To them I say, presenting for your consideration, OrionBlamBlam and DoctorRansom ...

Dr. Ransom
FaithFusion.net
Thrice violated my personal rule to keep speaking only for those with ears to hear

102 posted on 10/18/2005 11:35:50 AM PDT by DoctorRansom ("Alert and in first-class fighting trim")
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To: orionblamblam

>It's not evidence, it is, as I said, hearsay.

Was the existence of Sodom and Gomorra hearsay? The Bible was the only written evidence we had that they existed until they were confirmed via archeological digs. The authors of the New Testament knew the principles involved if they were not themselves the observers. Even Pompeii had scant, if any, historical evidence before it was found, and that was a whole city. It's really good evidence based on what we typically have from that time period. If the event wasn't "supernatural" or didn't have current political/religious implications, the evidence would be considered definitive by the overwhelming majority of scholars.

>Yup. Probably Zeta Reticuli 4.

Works for me.


103 posted on 10/18/2005 11:36:47 AM PDT by Netheron
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To: Netheron

> Was the existence of Sodom and Gomorra hearsay?

How about Troy? Or Ubar? Or Vinland?

I guess that means that the Iliad, the 1001 Arabian Nights and the Viking tales are all true!


104 posted on 10/18/2005 1:15:42 PM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: DoctorRansom

>> Kick a rock.

> And?

You'll discover an arguement for reality.

> The term isn't nearly as stigmatized as you may believe.

Just among those with some actual science.

> I'm more and more perplexed by the naive people who assume that everyone on FreeRepublic is conservative and the place is monolithically closed to disagreement. To them I say, presenting for your consideration, OrionBlamBlam and DoctorRansom ...

So you're admitting that you're not a conservative?


105 posted on 10/18/2005 1:17:06 PM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: orionblamblam
So you're admitting that you're not a conservative?
No. Only that thought isn't nearly so uniform on FR as some would have us believe. Instead, even among conservatives, the discussion and debate over issues thrives. Excellent.

Just among those with some actual science.
Again, you narrowly redefine "science" to suit only your own materialistic myopia, friend. Please read the article I mentioned before, for more on the very interesting differences between actual science and origins beliefs -- both creation and evolution, and everything in between. Without some open-mindedness to the perspective of the other, I fear we'll just continue in a cyclical argument.

Dr. Ransom
FaithFusion.net
Speaking only for those with ears to hear

106 posted on 10/18/2005 2:25:29 PM PDT by DoctorRansom ("Alert and in first-class fighting trim")
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To: DoctorRansom

> you narrowly redefine "science" to suit only your own materialistic myopia

Uhhhh.... yes. If it relies upon the supernatural, *by* *definition* it's not science.

What scientific disciplines can you name that include "and then a miracle happens" in the process?


107 posted on 10/18/2005 2:42:00 PM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: orionblamblam

Okay, I'm giving up. I'll continue this discussion once you prove that you are a real carbon-based human being and not some sort of sophisticated Turing test.


108 posted on 10/18/2005 4:25:10 PM PDT by Netheron
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To: Netheron

> Okay, I'm giving up.

So do you, or do you not, admit that the existence of a real place within a work of literature does not mean that the work of literature is necessarily a work of nonfiction?


109 posted on 10/18/2005 4:48:10 PM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

The only problem with your statement is that Pulp Fiction and Sin City really are masterpieces.


110 posted on 10/18/2005 4:48:30 PM PDT by Melas (What!? Read something? Learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stu)
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To: DoctorRansom

What is a Pullman and who cares what it thinks? My next door neighbor thinks this will be great and their name is Smith.


111 posted on 10/18/2005 4:52:08 PM PDT by Modok
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To: ChildOfThe60s

I have to agree. I'll admit I've never heard of Pullman and I'm not familiar with his books but from the sounds of it he's staked out his position a long time ago. He has a passion to fight against Christianity at all costs and is threatened by even the appearence of Christianity... especially if it's going Big Screen and getting Big Media Attention. I think he's making a fuss over it all just because he can. He has nothing better to do with his time than to write against something he fears. We all should probably feel sorry for the man, he probably had a scarring childhood expirience, has tried supressing the memories but the severe psychiatric trama is escaping him, expressing itself through that of an enraged atheistic theology. He probably needs therapy. Poor lost soul.


112 posted on 10/18/2005 7:47:59 PM PDT by RRyan24
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To: orionblamblam

>> But even in the absence of prayer and faith, the Father is
>> present.

>If that's true, then sin is tolerated in Gods presense.
>Pretty simple.

You are right. Sin is tolerated on earth because God respects you enough to allow you to choose between good and evil. What you choose is what you get for eternity. You are being tested.

I should have said, "Sin won't be allowed in God's presence in the Kingdom of Heaven." After all, the Devil stands in the presence of God accusing believers day and night.

I'm sorry for my mistake. May you pass this test, and enter into life. But I'd be burdening you if I said that your sins must be conquered with your own strength. You can't. But if you ask Jesus to help you, with a faithful and open heart, He will.

Have a great day.


113 posted on 10/19/2005 1:07:03 AM PDT by ROTB
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To: Netheron
Aww, be nice.

Dr. Ransom
FaithFusion.net
Independent-sighted, yet Right-minded

114 posted on 10/19/2005 3:57:46 AM PDT by DoctorRansom ("Alert and in first-class fighting trim")
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To: orionblamblam
Very mature.

But to be expected when you troll threads, as you have a history of doing.

115 posted on 10/19/2005 4:14:46 AM PDT by Hacksaw (Real men don't buy their firewood.)
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To: orionblamblam
If it relies upon the supernatural, *by* *definition* it's not science.
But your definition is inaccurate -- it's merely a materialist philosophy.

What scientific disciplines can you name that include "and then a miracle happens" in the process?
:-) Try: Almost all of the General Theory of Evolution. Note: this is not observable, testable, natural selection based on variations within species based on the sorting of genetic information that is already there, but the GTOE that is based entirely on spontaneous generation and never observed repeated, mutation-sourced additions of new genetic information.

Ours is not a debate over Miracles vs. Non-Miracles; rather, it is over Original Miracles By God vs. Even More Impossible Chance-Driven Miracles Without Him.

Meanwhile, the canard that if one allows supernatural intervention in the past is wholly irrelevant; please turn down the volume on this stereotype. Biblical creation-believers and ID theorists never lazily invoke miracles to explain away present-day phenomena or scientific laws and it's very likely you know this.

Dr. Ransom
FaithFusion.net
Independent-sighted, yet Right-minded

116 posted on 10/19/2005 4:46:44 AM PDT by DoctorRansom ("Alert and in first-class fighting trim")
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To: orionblamblam
If it relies upon the supernatural, *by* *definition* it's not science.
But your definition is inaccurate -- it's merely a materialist philosophy.

What scientific disciplines can you name that include "and then a miracle happens" in the process?
:-) Try: Almost all of the General Theory of Evolution. Note: this is not observable, testable, natural selection based on variations within species based on the sorting of genetic information that is already there, but the GTOE that is based entirely on spontaneous generation and never observed repeated, mutation-sourced additions of new genetic information.

Ours is not a debate over Miracles vs. Non-Miracles; rather, it is over Original Miracles By God vs. Even More Impossible Chance-Driven Miracles Without Him.

Meanwhile, the canard that if one allows supernatural intervention in the past is wholly irrelevant; please turn down the volume on this stereotype. Biblical creation-believers and ID theorists never lazily invoke miracles to explain away present-day phenomena or scientific laws and it's very likely you know this.

Dr. Ransom
FaithFusion.net
Independent-sighted, yet Right-minded


117 posted on 10/19/2005 4:49:51 AM PDT by DoctorRansom ("Alert and in first-class fighting trim")
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To: DoctorRansom
...but the GTOE that is based entirely on spontaneous generation and never observed repeated, mutation-sourced additions of new genetic information.

Evolution is mostly carried on by change, not addition of information. For what it's worth all the machinery of life is present in single celled organisms, and the information content of "higher" species is comparable. Evolution basically proceeds by gradual modification of parameters, not by adding drastic amounts of new code. The genome of plants and insects is not necessarily simpler or shorter than that of humans. In many cases the genome of other creatures is longer than that of humans.

How did the genomes of single celled organisms reach this level of complexity? Good question, but 85% of the history of life has been erased by time. We simply have no surviving evidence of early life.

118 posted on 10/19/2005 4:59:39 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: DoctorRansom

>> If it relies upon the supernatural, *by* *definition* it's not science.

>But your definition is inaccurate

No, it's quite accurate. Science is not a conclusion, but a process. It is a way to understand thbe universe and the way it works, and nobody has ever had any success trying to incorporate miracles into it, because miracles are untestable, unrepeatable and basically unrecorded.


>> What scientific disciplines can you name that include "and then a miracle happens" in the process?

>:-) Try: Almost all of the General Theory of Evolution

Since when is mutation (nd observable phenomonon) and more capable critters breeding more prolifically than less capable ones (also an observable phenomonon) somehow a miracle?

That's all evolution is... those two things occuring over time.

> the GTOE that is based entirely on spontaneous generation and never observed repeated, mutation-sourced additions of new genetic information.

What? Addition of new genes into gene codes is observed all the time. That is, for example, what a retrovirus does. It splices itself into your genes. And gene addition through replication error has also been observed a multitude of times.

New genetic info is added fairly easily, but randomly. Makes evolution possible.

If you invoke miracles to explain past phenomena, then all of science goes out the window, because nothing can be relied upon then. Who can say, then, that birds remain airborne because of aerodynamic processes rather than through the direct, and capricious, will of some god or other?


119 posted on 10/19/2005 6:00:39 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: js1138
Argument: some mutations are beneficial
from Refuting Evolution 2 by Dr. Jonathan Sarfati
(a [still-unanswered] rebuttal to Scientific American's July 2002 article "15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense")


Might want to read that one, for continuing study if nothing else. Many of these arguments supporting mutation-driven evolution were already dealt with decades ago, even before other scientists -- in the ID and Biblical creation movements -- came up with information theory.

To reiterate:
1. No serious scientist, evolutionary or creationist, in this century, has invoked supernatural explanations for present-day natural laws. To use the "well if you're going to allow any kind of miracles, you can't do science," canard is misleading (and again, completely blind to evolutionary "miracles" that are impossible).
2. Particles-to-people evolution requires immense amounts of new, amazingly complex information to arise out of nothing. This process has never been observed and is statistically improbable. The "proofs" cited are only examples of already-existing information being modified or combined.

Good discussion, though. It's great stuff to study, from any side. But for more, I do recommend an open-minded read-through of the article.

(Any chance of continuing this on a new thread? This discussion now has very little to do with the world of Narnia, which by the way was created ... :-) )

Dr. Ransom
FaithFusion.net
Speaking only for those with ears to hear

120 posted on 10/19/2005 7:26:08 AM PDT by DoctorRansom ("Alert and in first-class fighting trim")
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