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To: cpforlife.org
The thing that bothers me about reversing R/W is the number of dead bodies that will follow. Most people don't remember the number of "Back Alley Abortions" that occurred back then, but I do. This is the down side because it invites the unqualified medical hack to open a chop shop.
4 posted on 10/21/2005 7:03:36 PM PDT by ANGGAPO (LayteGulfBeachClub.)
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To: ANGGAPO

So, there should be no laws outlawing murder, because it will not stop murderers? Try again ... and I must say it was astonishing to read your post ... how old must one be, how much must one be able to remember to find killing innocent human beings ... acceptable because it was done in the past?


5 posted on 10/21/2005 7:14:56 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: ANGGAPO

BTW, "The thing that bothers me about reversing R/W is the number of dead bodies that will follow" ... is forty-million already slaughtered to be ignored?


6 posted on 10/21/2005 7:16:00 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: ANGGAPO
I was alive then too, and I don't remember any women dead from back alley abortions.

I have heard it was less than a dozen a year. The lives of those 12 women aren't worthless - we prolifers will continue to work to help them so they don't feel killing their baby is their only choice.

7 posted on 10/21/2005 7:18:59 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: ANGGAPO

Oh yeah? Well, why don't you tell us the number of Back Alley Abortions performed "back then"? I'm appalled at your comments in your post. A bill such as this might make someone consider adoption or contraceptive because they can no longer use the abortion clinic as a means of birth control.

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!


11 posted on 10/21/2005 7:26:47 PM PDT by no dems (43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, 2 to pull a trigger: I'm lazy and tired of smiling,)
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To: ANGGAPO
it invites the unqualified medical hack to open a chop shop

You don't believe that legal abortions are always safe, do you? The evidence points out that "unqualified medical hacks" are in business regardless of whether abortion is legal or not... the only difference is that with legal abortion they have more business.

It is also important to point out that it was not legalizing abortion that diminished the number of abortion deaths, rather it was the widespread use of antibiotics. The number of abortion deaths had gone down significantly before Roe vs. Wade.

12 posted on 10/21/2005 7:27:34 PM PDT by Former Fetus (fetuses are 100% pro-life, they just don't vote yet!)
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To: ANGGAPO

And, we need verifiable information to substantiate your "numbers".


13 posted on 10/21/2005 7:27:44 PM PDT by no dems (43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, 2 to pull a trigger: I'm lazy and tired of smiling,)
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To: ANGGAPO
Most people don't remember the number of "Back Alley Abortions" that occurred back then, but I do.

Then you have a faulty memory because it was all a lie.

How lying marketers sold Roe v. Wade to America

"Repeating the big lie often enough convinces the public. The number of women dying from illegal abortions was around 200-250 annually. The figure we constantly fed to the media was 10,000. These false figures took root in the consciousness of Americans, convincing many that we needed to crack the abortion law.

More interesting truth.

"Another myth we fed to the public through the media was that legalizing abortion would only mean that the abortions taking place illegally would then be done legally. In fact, of course, abortion is now being used as a primary method of birth control in the U.S. and the annual number of abortions has increased by 1,500 percent since legalization."

16 posted on 10/21/2005 7:33:54 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: ANGGAPO
The 'back alley' abortionist was usually a doctor or a nurse. There were never nearly as many back alley abortions as there are legal abortions today. Today, we have much better contraceptives available. Back when condoms and the diaphragm were about the only choices, the high end of estimates for abortions was less than 10% of women - now it's estimated that 1 in 4 babies, for over 30% of women obtain abortions. Some more than once. And 1.3 million of our children die each year.

From the Alan Guttmacher Institute, the research and education wing of Planned Parenthood:

Estimates of the number of illegal abortions in the 1950s and 1960s ranged from 200,000 to 1.2 million per year. One analysis, extrapolating from data from North Carolina, concluded that an estimated 829,000 illegal or self-induced abortions occurred in 1967.

One stark indication of the prevalence of illegal abortion was the death toll. In 1930, abortion was listed as the official cause of death for almost 2,700 women—nearly one-fifth (18%) of maternal deaths recorded in that year. The death toll had declined to just under 1,700 by 1940, and to just over 300 by 1950 (most likely because of the introduction of antibiotics in the 1940s, which permitted more effective treatment of the infections that frequently developed after illegal abortion). By 1965, the number of deaths due to illegal abortion had fallen to just under 200, but illegal abortion still accounted for 17% of all deaths attributed to pregnancy and childbirth that year. And these are just the number that were officially reported; the actual number was likely much higher.

Poor women and their families were disproportionately impacted. A study of low-income women in New York City in the 1960s found that almost one in 10 (8%) had ever attempted to terminate a pregnancy by illegal abortion; almost four in 10 (38%) said that a friend, relative or acquaintance had attempted to obtain an abortion. Of the low-income women in that study who said they had had an abortion, eight in 10 (77%) said that they had attempted a self-induced procedure, with only 2% saying that a physician had been involved in any way.

These women paid a steep price for illegal procedures. In 1962 alone, nearly 1,600 women were admitted to Harlem Hospital Center in New York City for incomplete abortions, which was one abortion-related hospital admission for every 42 deliveries at that hospital that year. In 1968, the University of Southern California Los Angeles County Medical Center, another large public facility serving primarily indigent patients, admitted 701 women with septic abortions, one admission for every 14 deliveries.

17 posted on 10/21/2005 7:38:00 PM PDT by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US. http://www.lifeethics.org/www.lifeethics.org/index.html)
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To: ANGGAPO

With all due respect (and I mean that) we must educate people that adoption is truly the loving option. A woman can give up nine months of her life to GIVE that life to someone who is deeply desiring and praying daily for a child, and yet, cannot bear a child. Abortion is taking a life; adoption is giving a life.

In 1988 I gave my Down Syndrome baby, Rachel, to a wonderful adoptive mother who had a Masters in Special Ed and before she met me and Rachel, was praying that God would give her a baby girl with Down Syndrome -- and she wanted to name her Rachel.


38 posted on 10/21/2005 11:17:11 PM PDT by bethtopaz (Even a fool is considered wise when he is silent.)
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To: All; hocndoc; ANGGAPO

Interesting fyi, in case you had not heard:

The Pro-abortion advocates knew that the 5,000 to 10,000 deaths were a myth. Dr. Bernard Nathanson, co-founder of the National Abortion Rights Action League, admits his group lied about the number of women who died from illegal abortions.

When testifying before the Supreme Court in 1972, he said, “We spoke of 5,000-10,000 deaths a year. . . . I confess that I knew the figures were totally false. . . it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics?”

excerpt http://www.nyfrf.org/myth.htm


46 posted on 10/21/2005 11:59:27 PM PDT by Sun (Hillary Clinton is pro-ILLEGAL immigration. Don't let her fool you. She has a D- /F immigr. rating.)
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To: ANGGAPO
###"The thing that bothers me about reversing R/W is the number of dead bodies that will follow. Most people don't remember the number of "Back Alley Abortions" that occurred back then, but I do. This is the down side because it invites the unqualified medical hack to open a chop shop."###

It is apparent you know little about the intrinsic evil that abortion is. Here are some stats:

· 1996 1,365,700
· 1995 1,363,700
· 1994 1,431,000
· 1993 1,500,000
· 1992 1,528,900
· 1991 1,556,500
· 1990 1,608,600
· 1988 1,590,800
· 1985 1,588,600
· 1980 1,553,900
· 1973 774,600
· 40 MILLION ABORTIONS SINCE 1973 and the average per year is still over 1.3 million. You show me the stats for "back alley" abortions. Never is your life would they match todays abortions.

Also, who do you think are doing todays abortions? Yale or Harvard Gyns? I suggest you visit a Planned Parenthood office and take a look at their ultrasound. Ha! I laugh because you will not find one.

National Statistics show the majority of abortions are for selfish reasons.


Finance- 21%

Not ready- 21%

Woman’s Life would change - 16%

Relationship Problems - 12%

Too young - 11%


Fetus health- 3%

Woman’s Health - 3%

Rape/Incest - 1%

I remember living 4 blocks from Margaret Sanger's first operation in 1939 and it was good they were closed. Of course she moved to Harlem to continue her human destruction. Study the subject and maybe you will see the light.
56 posted on 10/22/2005 8:55:01 PM PDT by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed.)
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To: ANGGAPO

I'm sure there where fatalities from illegal abortions, but Dr. Nathanson - former key member of NARAL - says that the numbers were greatly exaggerated by pro-abortion proponents, and then spread by the press. He should know, because he helped to make them up.

-- Joe


57 posted on 10/23/2005 11:31:58 AM PDT by Joe Republc
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To: ANGGAPO

I would like to point out, that from what I hear- many die from legal abortions. If a woman gets in distress at an abortion clinic or at home following abortion she is whisked to the local hospital so the statistics are not shown as being abortion clinic caused. I have seen news articles about this in the past and just last year I think it was there was a teen who died from a legal abortion and her parents did not know she had even had one.


58 posted on 10/23/2005 11:39:21 AM PDT by Tammy8 (I BELIEVE CONGRESSMAN WELDON)
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To: ANGGAPO

You bought the lie.

Bernard Nathanson, who helped spear-head the drive for legalized abortion -- and is now pro-life -- said he made up the infamous back-alley abortion death stats.

All bogus, he said.


59 posted on 10/23/2005 11:50:21 AM PDT by oneday
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