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Joe Wilson's Lies, A Timeline - Who Forged the Documents? (Vanity)
October 25, 2005 | wuli

Posted on 10/25/2005 11:39:50 AM PDT by Wuli

Look at this timetable(*):

Prior to 2001 - From various sources, the CIA has intelligence that Iraq made attempts to purchase weapons grade uranium in Africa (not just Niger).

October 15, 2001 - The CIA receives a report from a foreign government service that the Iraqi regime had struck a deal with the government of Niger to purchase several tons of partially processed uranium, known as "yellowcake." (This was not the later "source" often referred to as "forged documents".)

On October 18, 2001 - The CIA publishes a Senior Executive Intelligence Bulletin that discusses the finding. "According to a foreign government service, Niger as of early this year planned to send several tons of uranium to Iraq under an agreement concluded late last year."

February 5, 2002 - A second report, also from a "foreign government service" contains more details of the alleged transactions. An official from the CIA's directorate of operations says that the new information comes from "a very credible source," and some of the reporting seems to corroborate earlier accounts of meetings between Nigerien officials and Iraqis.

February 12, 2002 - Analysts at the Defense Intelligence Agency write a report using the new information entitled "Niamey signed an agreement to sell 500 tons of uranium a year to Baghdad." It is included in the daily intelligence briefing prepared for Vice President Dick Cheney. Cheney asks his CIA briefer for more information, including the CIA's analysis of the report. The CIA files a perfunctory response to the vice president's request, noting some concerns about the report and promising to follow up. It is unclear whether Cheney saw this response.

February 12, 2002 - Officials at the agency's Counterproliferation Division discuss how they might investigate the Niger claims further. An employee of the division, Valerie Wilson, suggests the agency send her husband, Joseph Wilson (a former U.S. ambassador to Gabon with experience in Niger), to Africa to make inquiries. In a memo to the deputy director of the Counterproliferation Division, she writes: "My husband has good relations with the PM [prime minister]of Niger] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity." Nothing documents any search for any other candidate for the trip.

February 18, 2002 - U.S. embassy in Niger sends a cable describing a "new" account of the alleged deal. It says, the account "provides sufficient detail to warrant another hard look at Niger's uranium sales." The cable warns against dismissing the allegations prematurely.

February 19, 2002 - Back at the CIA, representatives of several U.S. intelligence agencies meet with Ambassador Wilson to discuss a trip to Niger. Contemporaneous notes from an analyst at the State Department's INR suggest that Mrs. Wilson "apparently convened" the meeting. Several of the attendees question the value of the proposed trip, noting that the Nigeriens were unlikely to admit dealing with the Iraqis. Still, the CIA Counterintelligence Division (Plame's bosses) approves the trip.

At that point, add to that last fact the fact that Wilson had no experience as an intelligence operative or as an intelligence agent, someone at Langley should have been raising a big red flag about the trip. Is it significant that at this point, from the record, George Tenant had not been informed of the trip and would not be informed about it until afterwards?

Late February 2002 - Wilson takes his trip, here is how he would describe it:

"In late February 2002, I arrived in Niger's capital, Niamey, where I had been a diplomat in the mid-70s and visited as a National Security Council official in the late 90s. The city was much as I remembered it. Seasonal winds had clogged the air with dust and sand. Through the haze, I could see camel caravans crossing the Niger River (over the John F. Kennedy bridge), the setting sun behind them. Most people had wrapped scarves around their faces to protect against the grit, leaving only their eyes visible."

"I spent the next eight days drinking sweet mint tea and meeting with dozens of people: current government officials, former government officials, people associated with the country's uranium business. It did not take long to conclude that it was highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place."

Wilson also met with U.S. Ambassador to Niger Barbara Owens-Kirkpatrick, who, like the State Department's intelligence bureau, thought the alleged sale unlikely. Yet how does that assertion from her reflect the February 18 cable from her embassy (see above) describing a "new" account of the alleged deal; an account that provided "sufficient detail to warrant another hard look at Niger's uranium sales" and warned against dismissing the allegations prematurely? It doesn't. Also, note here that no "source" up to this point is based on any purported "forged" documents, delivered to or in possession of the US intelligence community.

March 5 2002 - Wilson is debriefed at his home by two CIA officials. He has not written a report and he makes no written report, contrary to many assertions he makes in writing and in speeches later on.

March 8 2002 - A CIA report covering the debriefing of Wilson is published and disseminated in the regular intelligence stream. The report includes the unsurprising declaration of former Nigerien prime minister Ibrahim Mayaki that Niger had signed no contracts with rogue states while he served first as foreign minister and then prime minister, from 1996 to 1999.(Why would he say otherwise, whether or not it was true - the type of contracts in question were under international sanctions against them.) But Mayaki gave a tantalizing detail, also included in the CIA report that resulted from Wilson's trip. An Iraqi delegation had visited Niger in 1999 to explore "expanding commercial relations" between Iraq and Niger. Mayaki had met with the Iraqis and later concluded that their request for enhanced trade meant they wanted to discuss purchasing uranium. Mayaki said he had not pursued the matter because such deals were prohibited under U.N. sanctions. (Yea, right.)

What was given as the CIA consensus view, in most every CIA presentation, following Wilson's trip was that his trip added little knowledge to the matter and if anything made the Iraqi-Niger deals seem plausible. That is 180 degrees from Wilson's public presentation of the results of his trip.

(1)During August and September the White house vets the text of various administration speeches with the CIA, because of language in them that cites Iraqi attempts to purchase uranium in Africa. The CIA clears the text without deleting the language. (2)A September 2002 DIA paper, is titled Iraq's Reemerging Nuclear Program. It declares: "Iraq has been vigorously trying to procure uranium ore and yellowcake."Note here it does not say "from Niger".

September 24 2002 - A white paper produced by the British government says: "There is intelligence that Iraq has sought the supply of significant quantities of uranium from Africa." The CIA has reservations about the British dossier, but not because of its substance. The British paper did not link the intelligence specifcally to Niger and there was intelligence on such matters concering the Congo and other African nations, but for some reason CIA officials were concerned that the reference could compromise their sources on Niger.Note here again, at this time, those sources are not the latter source said to be "forged documents".

September 24 2002 - Staffers at the National Security Council (NSC) ask the CIA to clear language on Iraq and Niger."We also have intelligence that Iraq has sought large amounts of uranium and uranium oxide, known as yellowcake, from Africa. Yellowcake is an essential ingredient in the process to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."The CIA once again approves the language, yet Bush chooses not to use it.

October 2 2002 - Senate Select Intelligence Committee met and questioned senior U.S. intelligence officials in closed session about the threat from Iraq.

Here for the first time, a senior CIA official (Deputy CIA Director John McLaughlin) raises doubts about the reporting on Iraq and Niger. Responding to a question from Senator Jon Kyl, who asks if there was anything in the British white paper the CIA disputed, McLaughlin says: "The one thing where I think they stretched a little bit beyond where we would stretch is on the points about Iraq seeking uranium from various African locations. We've looked at those reports and we don't think they are very credible. It doesn't diminish our conviction that he's going for nuclear weapons, but I think they reached a little bit on that one point."

It was in truth an amazing claim, or at minimum represented an amazing disconnect between the CIA staff and Deputy Director McLaughlin, given all the prior CIA vetting of language up to that point that was in agreement with the Birtish claim. It provides a glimpse of internal inconsistency at the CIA on the issue of Iraq and Niger. One day prior, October 1, 2002, the CIA had published the National Intelligence Estimate on Iraqi WMD, titled Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction. This classified document--the U.S. government's official position on Iraqi WMD programs--lifted almost verbatim the aggressive language used in the aforementioned DIA study, Iraq's Reemerging Nuclear Program, published just two weeks earlier:"Iraq [has been] vigorously trying to procure uranium ore and yellowcake; acquiring either would shorten the time Baghdad needs to produce nuclear weapons."Who in the CIA was McLaughlin talking to at the time and who was he not talking to? Who was in charge of vetting language regarding Niger? How were they out of the loop with McLauglin or how was he out of the loop with them?

October 2-6 2002 - White House speechwriters, finalizing text of a speech for the president to deliver on October 7, 2002, continue their back and forth with the CIA for clearance of sensitive language. On draft six of the speech, the CIA objects to this sentence: "The [Iraqi] regime has been caught attempting to purchase up to 500 metric tons of uranium oxide from Africa--an essential ingredient in the enrichment process."

October 2-6 2002 - The next iteration of the same speech, sent to the CIA for vetting leaves in the Africa-uranium claim. The CIA Director George Tenet calls Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley, telling Hadley that "the reporting was weak," and that the line shouldn't be used. Hadley removes the disputed language, and the CIA later faxed over its reasoning for insisting on the change.

Note here also that "Africa" not "Niger" is mentioned. So has something changed? The National Intelligence Estimate published just three days earlier included language just as aggressive. Was it a matter of classification? The NIE was classified, while the language in the speech was meant for public consumption. Still, twice in September the CIA had cleared similar language for public speeches. After having led the administration down this path, is the CIA backing away? Note again, for the third time, the "source" of the "forged documents" is still not among the various sources for any of the Africa-urianium intelligence assessments - none! Also note that the CIA has not brought forward any new "intelligence" at this point as a bais for the change!! (See Otober 9, below)

October 7 2002 - Inspite of the CIA Director's personal intervention, in regard to the President's October 7th speech, the officials responsible for coordinating the translation of intelligence into public rhetoric--Alan Foley, a top CIA nonproliferation expert, and Robert Joseph, a special assistant to the president for nonproliferation and a senior director at the NSC--are kept in the dark. Foley and Joseph proceed unaware that any substantive objections have been raised to the Niger intelligence. At least that is what their actions imply, as for months after October 7, the aggressive language regarding Africa, Iraq and uranium continues to be O.K'd between them.

October 9 2002 - Three days after George Tenent's warning and fully eight months after Joe Wilson's trip to Niger, , an Italian journalist walks into the U.S. embassy in Rome and delivers a set of documents purportedly showing that Iraq had purchased uranium from Niger. Was the timing a mere coincidence? The embassy provides the documents to the State Department and the CIA. At State, an INR analyst thinks the documents might be forgeries. Several different CIA divisions receive copies of the documents, but the agency provides no immediate evaluation of them and does not identify them as likely fabrications.

Question? I can find no documented testimony that classified copies of these documents, which do not come into the US possession until eight months after Joe Wilson's trip to Niger, were ever provided to Joe Wilson by the CIA or anyone else. There is no record that he was in any role, after his trip to Niger, where they should have or would have been given to him. Yet, later, as he launches his campaign against Bush, he seems to know an awful lot about what makes them "forgeries".

Fall of 2002, sometime after October 9 - A French diplomat tells the State Department the French received additional, credible reporting on the Iraqi-Niger transactions and they believe the earlier reports were true. Note: no documented reason for this "report" is made and the French do not say they are basing this report on the documents delivered to the US embassy in Italy on October 9, nor do they say they have or have seen those documents.

Fall of 2002, sometime after October 9 - A report from the U.S. Navy suggests that uranium being transferred from Niger to Iraq was discovered in a warehouse in Cotonou, Benin. The report indicates that the broker for the deal is willing to talk about it, but, mysteriously he is never contacted by the CIA or military intelligence.

December 7 2002 - Iraq submits to the United Nations its 11,000-page document on its weapons programs, as required by U.N. Resolution 1441. The CIA response to the Iraqi declaration, among the scores of objections, includes the claim that Iraq has failed to account for its attempts to acquire uranium from Africa. It seems like Tenet's CIA wants to have two positions on this issue.

December 7 2002 - January 28, 2003 - The Africa-Iraq-uranium claims continued to be approved by the CIA for various speeches by administration officials.

January 28, 2003 - President's State of the Union Speech (vetted by the CIA) includes: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." Again note the President is saying Africa and not simply Niger.

February 2003 - The U.S. government gives the IAEA the contents of its original reporting on the Iraq-Africa-uranium issue, including the documents delivered by the Italian journalist to the U.S. embassy in Rome on October 9, 2002. Again I need to stress here that those documents were neither the original intelligence sources which precipitated the trip by Wilson to Niger, neither were they the sole intelligence sources regarding Africa-Iraq-uranium deals and niether was Niger the sole suspected venue for such deals.

February 15, 2003 - NSC Staffer Stephan Hadley reiterates: "Iraq has an active procurement program. According to British intelligence, the regime has tried to acquire natural uranium from abroad", in an oped in the Chicago Tribune.

March 3, 2003 - The IAEA tells the U.S. that it believes the October 9, 2002 documents on an Iraq-Niger deal for uranium were forgeries.

March 4, 2003 - The French announce that the assessment it previously made to the United States--that an Iraq-Niger deal had taken place--was based on the same forged documents. (How timely?) (Some current and former Bush administration officials remain convinced that the French role in the matter was no accident. They speculate that French intelligence, seeking to embarrass the U.S. government, may have been the original source of the bad documents. An FBI investigation into the matter continues.)(I think the US should not cancel out the idea of domestic US sources.)

May 6, 2003 - Columnist Nicholas Kristof examines prewar U.S. claims of WMD in Iraq in a New York Times article. His article includes this curious passage:

I'm told by a person involved in the Niger caper that more than a year ago the vice president's office asked for an investigation of the uranium deal, so a former U.S. ambassador to Africa was dispatched to Niger. In February 2002, according to someone present at the meetings, that envoy reported to the C.I.A. and State Department that the information was unequivocally wrong and that the documents had been forged.

The envoy reported, for example, that a Niger minister whose signature was on one of the documents had in fact been out of office for more than a decade. In addition, the Niger mining program was structured so that the uranium diversion had been impossible. The envoy's debunking of the forgery was passed around the administration and seemed to be accepted--except that President Bush and the State Department kept citing it anyway.

Here is where Joe Wilson's tale gets very puzzling, from an intelligence point of view and it is here also that Wilson begins to conflate documents that are reportedly not known to the US until eight months after his trip with matters he claims, through his trip, to have "debunked". This tale by Kristof comes just about 90 days after the IAEA claims the October 9, 2002 documents were forgeries, but there is no record of who, if anyone, shared those documents with Wilson. Yet, he claims to have specific knowledge of what makes them "forgeries". How did he know that and/or who shared them with Wilson and why?

As to Wilson's claim that his "debunking" of the documents (that did not come to light until eight months after his Niger trip) was passed around the administration, it is simply an outright lie because the documents were never part of the intelligence stream prior to his trip and not part of any intelligence product of his trip. At least neither the CIA Director nor the White House had knowledge of those documents being an intelligence "product" of Wilson's trip. But who knows what Wilson really knew, outside of what he told the CIA that he knew? Is there cause for an investigation here?

June 12, 2003 - Walter Pincus of the Washington Post publishes a story saying, " according to a former White House official:

" During his trip, the CIA's envoy [Wilson] spoke with the president of Niger and other Niger officials mentioned as being involved in the Iraqi effort, some of whose signatures purportedly appeared on the documents."

" After returning to the United States, the envoy reported to the CIA that the uranium-purchase story was false, the sources said. Among the envoy's conclusions was that the documents may have been forged because the "dates were wrong and the names were wrong," the former U.S. government official said.

Again, at the time that Wilson "spoke with the president of Niger...." those "documents" were not, reportedly, known to Wilson or even in US possession and would not be so for another eight months. Is Wilson simply lying again, to Pincus? Or was he telling Pincus the truth; did he know about the documents when he was in Niger; the documents that would not show up until eight months later in Rome?

June 14, 2003 - Wilson speaks at a forum sponsored by the Education for Peace in Iraq Center (EPIC). Wilson does not tell his audience that he was the source for stories about "the ambassador's" trip to Africa, but his comments, like the following, reveal intimate knowledge of the mission.

" I just want to assure you that that American ambassador who has been cited in reports in the New York Times and in the Washington Post, and now in the Guardian over in London, who actually went over to Niger on behalf of the government--not of the CIA but of the government--and came back in February of 2002 and told the government that there was nothing to this story, later called the government after the British white paper was published and said you all need to do some fact-checking and make sure the Brits aren't using bad information in the publication of the white paper, and who called both the CIA and the State Department after the president's State of the Union and said to them you need to worry about the political manipulation of intelligence if, in fact, the president is talking about Niger when he mentions Africa."

" That person was told by the State Department that, well, you know, there's four countries that export uranium. That person had served in three of those countries, so he knew a little bit about what he was talking about when he said you really need to worry about this. But I can assure you that that retired American ambassador to Africa, as Nick Kristof called him in his article, is also pissed off, and has every intention of ensuring that this story has legs. And I think it does have legs. It may not have legs over the next two or three months, but when you see American casualties moving from one to five or to ten per day, and you see Tony Blair's government fall because in the U.K. it is a big story, there will be some ramifications, I think, here in the United States. So I hope that you will do everything you can to keep the pressure on. Because it is absolutely bogus for us to have gone to war the way we did.

The website for EPIC includes a biography of Wilson under the June 14, 2003, event that concludes with this sentence: "He is married to the former Valerie Plame and has four children."

Amazing. At this point in time, and in one single presentation, Wilson has simultaneously (1) again, conflated his trip with knowledge of documents that were not part of either end of that trip, (2) lied about the fact that the trip was assigned to him by the Counterproliferation Division of the CIA on its own (Valerie Plame's division) and not the "government", not the "administration" not the "White House", (3) lied about the intelligence assessment of that trip, (4) presumed that his personal views about Niger, not the CIA consensus view, should be the view of the US government, (5) threatens political retaliation against his own government and the Brits if his view is not adopted, and (6) identifies his motives as tied to an antiwar agenda.

And yet what are the known intelligence facts at this point? (1) Multiple intelligence streams, not inclusive of the October 9, 2002 documents, led the CIA to give high credibility to suspect Iraq-Niger uranium deals. (2) A February 2002 trip by Wilson neither dismantles that view nor brings enough "evidence" to cause the CIA to change it. (3) One single set of intelligence items, which were not part of the intelligence that precipitated Wilson's trip, the documents delivered on October 9, 2002 to the US in Rome, are thought to be suspect. (4) Regardless of the October 9 documents and consistent will the totality of the intelligence streams on the matter, the Butler Commission in Britain stands by the claims of Iraq-Africa uranium deals. as reasonable intelligence assumptions. Yet, Wilson is indignant that his personal view is not the official view? Is it that his view is so correct in the honesty of his own mind, or is that his antiwar agenda is correct, regardless of how much intelligence he knows he is not privy to?

June 30, 2003 - Wilson continues his propaganda campaign to justify himself to the world. In an article in The New Republic, by John Judis and Spencer Ackerman:

Wilson claimed Vice President Cheney received the October 9 documents documents directly from the British a year before Bush spoke the "16 words" in the January 2003 State of the Union. Yet we know that is a bald faced lie because the documents are not known to the US a year before the January 2003 State of Union address. Wilson also related to The New Republic:

Cheney then had given the information to the CIA, which in turn asked a prominent diplomat, who had served as ambassador to three African countries, to investigate. He returned after a visit to Niger in February 2002 and reported to the State Department and the CIA that the documents were forgeries. The CIA circulated the ambassador's report to the vice president's office, the ambassador confirms to TNR. But, after a British dossier was released in September detailing the purported uranium purchase, administration officials began citing it anyway, culminating in its inclusion in the State of the Union. "They knew the Niger story was a flat-out lie," the former ambassador tells TNR.

Wilson's lies are now running full steam ahead: (1)Cheney cannot give documents to the CIA in February 2002 that do not even come into US possession until October 2002; (2) for the same reason, Wilson cannot return to report anything on those documents from his trip, and (3) there was no official "report" from Ambassador Wilson on his trip, to be given to anyone, Cheny or otherwise and there is no documented incidence that any special CIA report was made to Cheney concerning Wilson's trip.

Now we have a complete timeline of Wilson's campaign of lies and misrepresentations about the cause of his trip, who authorized it, who organized it, what was the meaning of it and what was the intelligence result from it.

And then:

July 6, 2003 - New York Times publishes Wilson's now-famous op-ed. That account differs in important ways from the story Wilson has anonymously provided the Times, the Washington Post and the New Republic.

Wilson acknowledges for the first time he had not seen any forged document. "As for the actual memorandum, I never saw it. But news accounts have pointed out that the documents had glaring errors--they were signed, for example, by officials who were no longer in government--and were probably forged." Wilson acknowledged the same thing in an appearance that morning on Meet the Press, saying, "I had not, of course, seen the documents."

And still, the reason Joe Wilson was courted to write an op-ed for the New York Times and to appear on Meet the Press was not because his analysis of the Niger intelligence differed from that of the CIA or of Bush administration policymakers but because according to Wilson he was the man with the proof; but we know he had no such "proof".

Wilson is no "whistleblower", he is a lier and a man on a political agenda,

The frightening and amazing part of these facts is that a substantial body of the leadership of the Democrats and a substantial body of the mainstream media know this timeline and know Wilson's lies completely, and yet he not only remains an unassailable icon for them, but you can scratch his final deafening admissions in his own July 6, 2003 article, because for the Democrats and the mainstream media, all his prior lies fit their template and it is on that template, not the evidence, that they continue to lionize Joe Wilson. Their joint political agenda is everything and the truth is nothing.

As the Plame Timeline opens with:

July 14, 2003 - Robert Novak writes a column in which he names Joseph Wilson's wife, "CIA operative" Valerie Plame. Novak sourced this information to "two senior administration officials."The CIA questioned if Novak's reference had compromised Plame's CIA status and asked the Justice Department to investigate.

December 30, 2003 - Attorney General John Ashcroft recuses himself in the matter, and Deputy Attorney General James Comey names U.S. attorney Patrick Fitzgerald a special prosecutor to look at the CIA's question.

But without getting into the who talked to who timeline concerning Plame, what is the root story, the root causes behind the Plame saga?

Her husband is a purveyor of lies and a political propagandist with those lies. For whatever personal and political reasons Joe Wilson decided to accept a role in which a foreign trip supplied to him by his wife's position would serve as a means by which he would launch a political campaign against a United States President, with lies.

If it is a fact that Valerie Plame was not fully covered by the requirements of the 1982 law against "outing" a covert intelligence operative, then where is there a crime in whatever response the Bush administration made to provide factual context against Joe Wilson's lies? There is none.

(*)The data for the timeline has come mainly from redacting information from a report in the Weekly Standard by Stephen F. Hayes.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: cialeak; joewilson; josephwilson; needsmorecowbell; niger; timeline; uranium; valerieplame
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To: Lizarde
Libby is a Freeper? Cool beans!

Like other former White House staff, this person spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing criminal investigation.

You know what, there just aren't that MANY "former" White House staffers from this administration.

51 posted on 10/25/2005 2:30:11 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Lizarde
But new interviews and documents obtained by The Times provide a more detailed view of the depth and duration of Libby's interest in Wilson. They also show that the vice president's office closely monitored news coverage.

Do they think that the White House was suppose to just sit back and not contradict the lies Wilson was telling?

And they had to monitor for a LONG time because Wilson just wouldn't shut up!

Wilson, reached by telephone while on a speaking tour in California, said Thursday that he was outraged by the extent of the White House effort to track and counter his statements. "What an abuse of power," Wilson said. "What the hell are they doing using taxpayer funded employees to root around and find information on me?"

*Snort* He obviously offended because he couldn't lie with wild abandon.

52 posted on 10/25/2005 2:36:37 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Wuli; Lizarde

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1508560/posts?q=1&&page=534#531


Why did Fitz call Joe Wilson?


53 posted on 10/25/2005 2:42:53 PM PDT by Perdogg ("Facts are stupid things." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: Perdogg

I hope we will come to know the answer to that question.

My hope would be that Fitzgerald is seeing the things in Wilson's role in all this that bring his activities into reasonable question by reasonable people; questions which (for a prosecutor) could relate to Plame's "outing", or lies by her and Wilson concerning that "outing".

Maybe Fitzerald is even asking, if no initial crime was committed, why did the CIA want an investigation. Maybe Fitzgerald is seeing something wrong in the Wilson, Plame CIA relationships, as we do.


54 posted on 10/25/2005 2:49:36 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: piasa

Timeline ping.


55 posted on 10/25/2005 2:49:40 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: My2Cents
Frankly, I don't trust the assessment of a guy who spent about a week poolside drinking sweet mint tea, talking to a bunch of government officials who if they know what's good for them would never admit to dealing with Saddam.

True as well. My point though is beyond all of this, Wilson was playing word games.

56 posted on 10/25/2005 2:52:16 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Southack
The 'friggin French... gutless backstabbers... the pals of Lt. Jean Francois Kerrie.

The next time were attacked by ANYBODY... I propose nuking France in a fire-for-effect operation.

57 posted on 10/25/2005 2:54:40 PM PDT by johnny7 (“What now? Let me tell you what now.”)
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To: Howlin
They also show that the vice president's office closely monitored news coverage.

Paying attention to the news is now a criminal offense?

58 posted on 10/25/2005 2:57:34 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Wuli

The dems and the press know they are lying but don't care about the lies. All they care about is kicking up dust and making Bush look bad. Their hope is that the dust will cover the lies while the whitehouse looks guilty. I want to know why Plame recommended her husband for this trip.


59 posted on 10/25/2005 3:10:08 PM PDT by virgil
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To: Wuli

Maybe Wilson/Plame are French "operatives"?


60 posted on 10/25/2005 3:14:28 PM PDT by virgil
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To: lepton

If so, we're all going to the slammer!


61 posted on 10/25/2005 3:17:02 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Wuli
"I spent the next 8 days drinking mint tea and meeting with dozens of officials"

If I were Fitz, I'd subpoena Wilson and ask him, under oath, to identify those "dozens of officials." I bet he interviewed fewer than 10 people, maybe fewer than 5. You could not possibly do "dozens" of bona fide intelligence interviews in 8 days, IMHO.
62 posted on 10/25/2005 3:23:50 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Wuli

Nice job, rookie! ;^)


63 posted on 10/25/2005 3:26:03 PM PDT by airborne (Al-Queda can recruit on college campuses but the US military can't!)
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To: lepton
Paying attention to the news is now a criminal offense?

It is if you're a Republican.

Also, is it a crime if people with top secret clearances talk to one another about top secret stuff?

64 posted on 10/25/2005 3:28:54 PM PDT by airborne (Al-Queda can recruit on college campuses but the US military can't!)
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To: lepton

I question how many of these "dozens" of "officials" Wilson actually talked to, and at what length. The whole idea of the trip was lame-brained; what government official in Niger is going to admit, to a man such as Wilson with no offical standing, and with no compelling reason to do so, that his country was engaged in illegal uranium transactions? How could anyone possibly think that Wilson could get any legitimate information by making this trip? The whole trip was a charade, either to benefit Wilson's personal business interests on other matters, or to embarrass the Bush administration by providing a superficial and shallow debunking of the yellow-cake story. .


65 posted on 10/25/2005 3:35:59 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Steve_Seattle

Did Wilson go to Niger so that he could understand how uranium trade works and which officials would be involved? Information like that could prove useful is one was to develop forged documents. Just a thought.


66 posted on 10/25/2005 4:04:15 PM PDT by UglyinLA
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To: Wuli

It would be very interesting to know when the documents were forged. They may have been available to Wilson and Plame before she suggested he go to Niger. Someone else has posted here that Wilson's first wife is a French connection. This is a very tangled web.

Thanks for the timeline.


67 posted on 10/25/2005 4:32:05 PM PDT by Rocky (Air America: Robbing the poor to feed the Left)
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To: Wuli

Thanks for posting.

AP-Rome
Italian faces pre-war intelligence probe
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1509177/posts


68 posted on 10/25/2005 5:27:50 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Monthly Donor spoken Here. Go to ... https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Fedora

thanks


69 posted on 10/25/2005 5:44:52 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude Adjustments Offered Here Free of Charge)
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To: Wuli

This was great. You get a gold star sticker. What I want to know is who exactly Wilson saw and spoke to when he was in Niger. And what is the French Connection?


70 posted on 10/25/2005 6:49:56 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: sageb1
Also interesting is the fact that in November of 2002, Soros was calm, cool, and collected about getting off on insider trading charges in France.

November 9 2002

George Soros, the financier who made his fortune playing chicken with governments on the world's financial markets, found himself on the receiving end of a state attack on Thursday when he went on trial in Paris for insider trading.

Prosecutors allege he took advantage of inside information in 1988 to make £7 million buying and selling in the French bank Societe Generale.

As the case was laid out against him, Soros stretched his legs, adjusted his earpiece and smoothed his tie, with no hint of first-day nerves. At the end of the opening session, he said: "I am confident I will be acquitted.

"I have been implicated by accident. I learned a lot about Societe Generale today that I never knew before."

I believe he was convicted, but given a slap on the wrist fine. Why? It took 10 yrs. to bring this to trial. What arrangements were made with Chirac? And what arrangements did Chirac possibly make with Wilson?

71 posted on 10/25/2005 7:42:32 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: Steve_Seattle
The whole idea of the trip was lame-brained; what government official in Niger is going to admit, to a man such as Wilson with no offical standing, and with no compelling reason to do so, that his country was engaged in illegal uranium transactions?

And don't forget that the then-Ambassador to Niger Owens-Kirkpatrick forbade Wilson from speaking with then-current officials in the Niger government lest he interfere in the State Department's own on-going investigation (she knew him better than most and realized he would just muck things up). He only spoke to past government officials who had no current information.

72 posted on 10/25/2005 11:19:07 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: NormsRevenge

Now the left (who I think inserted the "documents" into the international intelligence stream) is going to have its revenge.

What we have to keep out there in the public realm are these facts.

The US and British intelligence stream on this issue begins long before these documents are entered into the stream. The US and British intelligence stream and their intelligence consensus did not rely on, or depend soley on those documents.

The documents only came into the game (October 9, 2002) when someone (the left) needed something to refute what the Brits and the US said.

That is going to be missed in the media, and Blair and Bush will only have themselves to blame if they do not make it clear that those documents never made the start, the base or the preponderance of evidence on the issue.

The "forged documents" continue to serve the agenda of those who created them; someone somewhere in the world who alligned with Interantional ANSWER here in the US.


73 posted on 10/26/2005 6:07:30 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Steve_Seattle

The problem with the people he says he interviewed is that none of them had any reason or incentive to tell Wilson if the claims were true.

They all would have been or would be in compromising positions if the claims were true, because they would have been involved in the transactions themselves, in the past or at the time Wilson talked to them.

Africa, in spite of its riches and due to corruption is a continent filled with corrupt governments and many underpaid and corruptible officials. For Wilson to take their answers at face value shows either he is really stupid, or he did it just for show, not actually believing them himself.


74 posted on 10/26/2005 6:14:57 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: virgil

If they were anyone's "operatives" my guess would be that it included more than just the French and the Democrats.


75 posted on 10/26/2005 6:16:20 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: virgil

What we all want to know is

why the entire affair was left by Tenet and McLaughlin to be handled without their involvemen;

why no one, even in Valerie Plame's group, the Counterproliferation Division, questioned the legitimacy and the worth of sending Wilson as opposed to someone experienced in actually collecting and verifying covert intelligence.

Who believed that Wilson's old friends in Niger would tell him the truth if they were involved??


76 posted on 10/26/2005 6:20:45 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: sageb1

Read this link, its great


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1256475/posts
What Joe Wilson Doesn't Say About Africa

and about France and about his connections with French diplomats or Saudi-middle east business interests, or African business interests, or business interest that got Iraqi oil for food money, or other nefarious associations of his, including his long-time and dedicated political support to prominent Democrats.


77 posted on 10/26/2005 6:23:02 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Wuli
What caught my eye:

"In late February 2002, I arrived in Niger"....where "I had been a diplomat in the mid 70's".

So he had all these connections but hadn't been there in 30 years? How old is Joe?

78 posted on 10/26/2005 7:52:02 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: vrwinger

I agree. Rove was the optimum target to get this big roadblock out of Hillary's path for a 2008 run. And which stupid jerk is willing to be VP under her? Wesley Clark or Don Sutherland?


79 posted on 10/26/2005 8:01:28 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: backhoe

Resource Alert, pinging Indeximus Maximus...


80 posted on 10/26/2005 8:26:42 AM PDT by Stultis
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To: Sacajaweau

You can be sure Wilson had been in Africa many times from the 1970s to 2002, just read:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1256475/posts
What Joe Wilson Doesn't Say About Africa


81 posted on 10/26/2005 10:14:12 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Wuli

June 14, 2003 - Wilson speaks at a forum sponsored by the Education for Peace in Iraq Center

(EPIC). Wilson does not tell his audience that he was the source for stories about "the

ambassador's" trip to Africa, but his comments, like the following, reveal intimate knowledge of

the mission.

" I just want to assure you that that American ambassador who has been cited in reports in the

New York Times and in the Washington Post, and now in the Guardian over in London, who actually

went over to Niger on behalf of the government--not of the CIA but of the government--and came

back in February of 2002 and told the government that there was nothing to this story, later

called the government after the British white paper was published and said you all need to do

some fact-checking and make sure the Brits aren't using bad information in the publication of the

white paper, and who called both the CIA and the State Department after the president's State of

the Union and said to them you need to worry about the political manipulation of intelligence if,

in fact, the president is talking about Niger when he mentions Africa."

" That person was told by the State Department that, well, you know, there's four countries that

export uranium. That person had served in three of those countries, so he knew a little bit about

what he was talking about when he said you really need to worry about this. But I can assure you

that that retired American ambassador to Africa, as Nick Kristof called him in his article, is

also pissed off, and has every intention of ensuring that this story has legs. And I think it

does have legs. It may not have legs over the next two or three months, but when you see American

casualties moving from one to five or to ten per day, and you see Tony Blair's government fall

because in the U.K. it is a big story, there will be some ramifications, I think, here in the

United States. So I hope that you will do everything you can to keep the pressure on. Because it

is absolutely bogus for us to have gone to war the way we did.





> and you see Tony Blair's government fall because in the U.K. it is a big story, there will be

>some ramifications, I think, here in the United States.




Hi:

I think I may *possibly* have something significant that came into my mind when I was reading

this, or else it was just a brain fart and I apologize for wasting peoples time.

Note the above quote by Wilson which I've taken from from the larger set of qoutes above that.
That is where he says Blairs government would fall. Well, what hit me as I was reading this was

the recollection of when Clinton went over to Britain I think just before the war. As I

recollect, Clinton told Blair that he'd better turn on Bush or else he'd be going down too, or

something to that effect (if my memory isn't too far off). Does that ring a bell to anybody? I

think it was an unintentionally overheard conversation by a reporter and was written up in an

article which I read here of FR. It was discussed at some length I think in a few threads if my

memory serves me. What could be the significance of it? That this is a plan hatched by
Clinton.
If some freepers can find the article that mentioned their encounter I wonder if anything could

be gleaned from it that could tie them in together.

Anybody????

Note: I'm really just a lurker for the most part around here. I've been lurking for quite a few

years on FR just reading with very, very few posts. Usually I prefer not to post but the way this

thought just entered my mind seemed to make real sense. The problem is that my search skills on

FR are probably not the best and so I'm asking if anybody out there could help track the article

down.

Thanks


82 posted on 10/26/2005 1:38:17 PM PDT by CanadianPete
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To: CanadianPete

June 14, 2003 - Wilson speaks at a forum sponsored by the Education for Peace in Iraq Center (EPIC). Wilson does not tell his audience that he was the source for stories about "the ambassador's" trip to Africa, but his comments, like the following, reveal intimate knowledge of the mission.

" I just want to assure you that that American ambassador who has been cited in reports in the New York Times and in the Washington Post, and now in the Guardian over in London, who actually went over to Niger on behalf of the government--not of the CIA but of the government--and came back in February of 2002 and told the government that there was nothing to this story, later called the government after the British white paper was published and said you all need to do some fact-checking and make sure the Brits aren't using bad information in the publication of the white paper, and who called both the CIA and the State Department after the president's State of the Union and said to them you need to worry about the political manipulation of intelligence if, in fact, the president is talking about Niger when he mentions Africa."

" That person was told by the State Department that, well, you know, there's four countries that export uranium. That person had served in three of those countries, so he knew a little bit about what he was talking about when he said you really need to worry about this. But I can assure you that that retired American ambassador to Africa, as Nick Kristof called him in his article, is also pissed off, and has every intention of ensuring that this story has legs. And I think it does have legs. It may not have legs over the next two or three months, but when you see American casualties moving from one to five or to ten per day, and you see Tony Blair's government fall because in the U.K. it is a big story, there will be some ramifications, I think, here in the United States. So I hope that you will do everything you can to keep the pressure on. Because it is absolutely bogus for us to have gone to war the way we did.




> and you see Tony Blair's government fall because in the U.K. >it is a big story, there will be some ramifications, I think, >here in the United States.




Hi:

I think I may *possibly* have something significant that came into my mind when I was reading this, or else it was just a brain fart and I apologize for wasting peoples time.

Note the above quote by Wilson which I've taken from from the larger set of qoutes above that. That is where he says Blairs government would fall. Well, what hit me as I was reading this was the recollection of when Clinton went over to Britain I think just before the war. As I recollect, Clinton told Blair that he'd better turn on Bush or else he'd be going down too, or something to that effect (if my memory isn't too far off). Does that ring a bell to anybody? I think it was an unintentionally overheard conversation by a reporter and was written up in an
article which I read here of FR. It was discussed at some length I think in a few threads if my memory serves me. What could be the significance of it? That this is a plan hatched by
Clinton.


If some freepers can find the article that mentioned their encounter I wonder if anything could be gleaned from it that could tie them in together.

Anybody????

Note: I'm really just a lurker for the most part around here. I've been lurking for quite a few years on FR just reading with very, very few posts. Usually I prefer not to post but the way this thought just entered my mind seemed to make real sense. The problem is that my search skills on FR are probably not the best and so I'm asking if anybody out there could help track the article down.

Thanks


83 posted on 10/26/2005 2:01:32 PM PDT by CanadianPete
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To: CanadianPete

I just reposted my post in #82 in #83 with better formatting. Sorry about #82.


84 posted on 10/26/2005 2:03:46 PM PDT by CanadianPete
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To: Wuli
Comprehensive and helpful timeline. Thanks for putting it together.

Now bookmarked along with two other threads that provide the ultimate Plamegate Reader.

Set up? Anatomy of the contrived Wilson "scandal", by Wolfstar (10/2/03)

Joseph Wilson, Niger, Uranium and Bush’s Famous Sixteen Words: Evolution of a Confused Story, by Shermy (4/16/04)

It is clear to any who might read these threads that FReepers have invested more effort in trying to untangle Plamegate and have more knowledge of the case than has anybody in the MSM.

85 posted on 10/26/2005 4:00:50 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: lugsoul
Why would an effort to get more [yellow cake] either (a) be credible or (b) lead anyone to think it augered some jumpstart in their nuke program?

Recall that, post Gulf War, Iraq was under a weapons inspection regime. The IAEA knew where the 500 T of yellowcake were stored and had placed their seal on each container. It couldn't be tampered with without the knowledge and approval of the IAEA.

A fresh supply of smuggled yellowcake would, however, be available for exploitation in any way that the Hussein regime deemed fit.

86 posted on 10/26/2005 5:11:51 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Wuli; Wolfstar; Shermy; dirtboy; Fedora; piasa; cyncooper
Some critical additions to your timeline:

January 22, 2003 -- At about the same time as the President delivers his "sixteen words" in the SOTU, Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV is giving a lecture at his alma mater, University of California at Santa Barbara, in which he essentially agrees with the President!

In this speech and in a "recent" op-ed in the San Jose Mercury-News, Joe Wilson is claiming that there are two reasons NOT to go to war with Iraq:

1. Saddam Hussein has WMD.

2. He will use them.

See Former Diplomat To Give Views On Possible War With Iraq at UCSB, a UCSB Press Release promoting a 1/22/03 lecture (and referencing a “recent” San Jose Mercury News opinion piece by Wilson), January 16, 2003.

So, eleven months after his trip to Niger, Wilson believes Saddam has WMD and will use them. There is no record of a 180 degree reversal until May -- when he starts his campaign of leaks by breakfasting with Nicholas Kristof and after he has joined the Kerry campaign!

July 2, 2003 -- The BBC publishes a story promoting the mysterious "anonymous American diplomat who went to Niger and discovered that Bush's 'sixteen words' in the State of the Union address had no basis in fact".

The Beeb's source was listed as "a CIA employee". Larry Johnson? Miss Valerie?

July 8, 2003 -- Doug Thompson of Capitol Hill Blue prints an incendiary piece -- "White House admits Bush lied about Iraqi nukes" -- which goes much further than Wilson's July 6 op-ed for the New York Times. His source for this melodrama was "a CIA operative" named Terrance J. Wilkinson.

Subsequently, Thompson is forced to withdraw his claims and modify his position, thanks to research by the FReeper William McKinley who proves that the person described as Terrance J. Wilkinson never existed (well, after all, he was "CIA"). The story is withdrawn from the CHB archives and Thompson writes a mea culpa -- Conned Big Time, Doug Thompson, Capitol Hill Blue, July 9, 2003.

"Wilkinson" or whoever it was that sourced the story to Thompson is obviously in cahoots with Wilson (Larry Johnson?), given the timeline and corroborative material provided. We have a conspiracy...

For a more complete discussion of this event, see Fedora's #247.

I submit that the true identity of "Terrance J. Wilkinson" -- apparently a fiction based on fact -- would provide another link in a conspiracy cynically designed to use the media to discredit the President of the United States.

There are chicken tracks all over Plamegate. Most of them left by the vaunted CIA...

87 posted on 10/26/2005 6:35:17 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Wuli

Very handy guide for slamming the libs foaming at the mouths hysteria. Good Job.


88 posted on 10/26/2005 6:37:24 PM PDT by Gillmeister
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To: okie01

That's a solid point, at least until they kicked out the inspectors.


89 posted on 10/26/2005 7:06:00 PM PDT by lugsoul
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To: lugsoul
Negotiations to lift the sanctions, however, could always lead to the return of the inspectors.

Consequently, even after November, 1998, Hussein would have found it advisable to leave the existing yellowcake intact and acquire new, unaccountable stocks to support any nuclear program.

Further, we now know that there was a yellowcake smuggling racket going on -- out of Niger to so-called "rogue nations". Libya's yellowcake, for example, was traced to Niger's mines.

It's not a long stretch to figure that Iraq and the contraband yellowcake sources in Niger would find each other...

90 posted on 10/26/2005 7:14:27 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: okie01
There are chicken tracks all over Plamegate. Most of them left by the vaunted CIA...

Thanks for the ping, okie. Superb information that helps to fill in the gaps. Who the heck knows what Fitzgerald will do, but if he hasn't figure out the truth after two years, I would have to say he never tried to. If he indicts people on process technicalities for trying to protect the presidency from the Wilson-Plame, et. al., treachery, it would be among the worst miscarriages of justice in our nation's history.

91 posted on 10/26/2005 8:37:27 PM PDT by Wolfstar (The reactionaries' favorite short list are all judges GWB appointed to the appellate bench.)
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To: okie01

Thanks!


92 posted on 10/26/2005 9:20:52 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: CanadianPete



I was googling posts on FR and found this post by CyberAnt talking about the exact same thing.

here's the url: CyberAnts post is number 59

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1293203/posts?q=1&&page=51

Here's what CyberAnt said

>It was during one of these trips to London, where Bill Clinton >told Blair that he better dump Bush because if Blair didn't, it >could cost Blair his job. And .. I believe it was shortly after >that statement that the Wilson mess exploded in the media (which >is why I have always believed Hillary was involved in it). >Thank GOD Blair did not buy the threat.

I am still searching for the article of that encounter but others have thought of it too so there is something to it I think.


93 posted on 10/27/2005 3:40:11 AM PDT by CanadianPete
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To: CanadianPete

Some more from Cyberant

Here's the thread url.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1441701/posts

Here's what CyberAnt said.



Also .. it was common knowledge that Blair and Bill Clinton had a few sharp words at a cocktail party in London - in the run up to the Iraq war. Clinton told Blair that if he continued to support Bush, Blair was going to lose his election. Right after that the Niger affair blew up. I find that too coincidental not to be related.

I said that about the Blair incident to say this: The Wilsons were very close friends with the Clintons - and the Wilsons did fundraisers for the Clintons. What if it was Hillary who plotted with Valerie to send Wilson on the trip to try to prove there was no yellow-cake - and thereby stop the war from happening ..?? Clinton's statement to Blair could be construed to mean that the Clintons already knew about the Wilson trip and that it was going to be used to try to discredit the intel on Iraq and thereby Blair and Bush would be discredited.

What if the person the NYT is trying to cover for is Hillary ..??




Note: i'm still searching for the articles about this cocktail party encounter.


94 posted on 10/27/2005 4:27:24 AM PDT by CanadianPete
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To: CanadianPete

ok found some more.

here's the url.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/939862/posts

BOOT BUSH, TONY (says Sidney Blumenthal)
Daily Mirror (U.K.) ^ | 07/03/03 | Oonagh Blackman

PM warned he will be election 'target'

TONY Blair has been told he must distance himself from President Bush.

The prime minister was given the warning yesterday at a meeting with Sidney Blumenthal, an aide to former US president Bill Clinton.

A vicious battle between Democrats and Republicans is predicted in the next presidential election and Mr Blumenthal said the PM would suffer from his close relationship with Mr Bush.

He said: "The US is about to enter a very contentious political phase as our presidential campaign hots up. Bush intends to exploit 9/11 and that is going to be used against him.

"It is going to become intense to the extent that any foreign leader who associated himself with Bush's political goals will become an object of controversy. He will be an indirect target."

Mr Blumenthal also said Mr Blair, dubbed a "poodle" for backing the American-led war in Iraq, was in more trouble over the failure to uncover evidence of weapons of mass destruction.

He said: "Two-thirds of Americans believe the war took place because of al-Qaeda and 9/11, and that Saddam Hussein was developing nuclear weapons and there was an imminent threat. The view is Blair is in more trouble on this than Bush."

Mr Blumenthal also warned the Government against getting bogged down in "distractions". An adviser to President Clinton between 1997 and 2001, he said Mr Blair was being battered by "right-wing conspirators" in the way the president was in the run-up to the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

He said: "The Blair government is not going through a crisis even though some think it is.

"With Clinton the right-wing was always trying to undermine him. Part of it involved a Conservative press that infected the atmosphere. Some of that exists here in Britain."

Mr Blair will meet his political soulmate Bill Clinton next week. He is visiting London with wife Hillary, who is being urged to stand as a presidential candidate in the 2008 election.




I will keep looking.


95 posted on 10/27/2005 4:50:18 AM PDT by CanadianPete
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To: okie01

Thanks for the really great additions.

My timeline was not so much a research project as it was a personal need of mine to get a very long article on the subject, by Stephen Hayes from the weekly standard, into a view where I could see everything in a timeline.

I redacted, edited as well as deleted a few things from that material, put it in a strict timeline and added my comments at points where I thought the material, up to those points, jumped out with questions or revelations.

Others in this thread have been noting how the material begs the question of rogue CIA people, or a CIA conspiracy

(how does Deputy CIA Dir McLaughlin enter a congressional hearing and essentially dispute the agressive Iraq-Africa-uranium language, when in every instance prior to that day, including a major CIA paper on the subject just the day before, the CIA is using, and vetting for public use, the same agressive language McLaughlin discounts as over-reaching, only then to have the CIA continue vetting that agressive language for public use)

or what was the role of outsiders obtaining information from CIA people who wanted to leak things to damage the administration - particularly CIA people who, in my view, may have known less than they thought they knew.

If I were the "CIA leak" prosecutor, and I looked at the timeline of Joe Wilson's lies, my investigation would now be expanding into finding who in the CIA was officially or unofficially working a scam on the WMD intelligence in a conspiracy to embarass the administration.

Supposedly there is an FBI investigation into the origins of the forged documents delivered to the US Emabassy in Rome eight months after Wilson's trip. But no one is talking about or even asking where is that investigation.

To the American people, that is more important than asking when did Scooter Libby talk to Judith Miller and what did he tell her and why.

If, as everyone believes is true, Plame could not have been covered by the 1982 "outing law", and given the lies and misrepresentations of Wilson and the bogus assignment of him for the trip to begin with, then where was any crime committed in the admin's response to put out the facts to counter Wilson's lies? There was none.

So the current "prosecution" is another Martha Stewart case. No crime committed but we'll get them to trip up somewhere when we talk to them and then they'll committ a crime by not having been 100% straight with us.

These type of prosecutorial actions appear Stalinist to me.

Like we want to make someone a criminal; so if we find the charge we start with will not work, because it is not true, then let's find some other way; just as long as at the end of the day we have a "conviction".

Lenin and Stalin would be proud of us.


96 posted on 10/27/2005 6:54:04 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: okie01

Thanks again.

Later today or tonight, I am going to add material to my timeline from the links in your two posts.

I probably should not send the whole new thing in.

Maybe Jim can find a way to let me replace the original with a new one and then just give a new notice and link to it.


97 posted on 10/27/2005 6:59:22 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: okie01
"It is clear to any who might read these threads that FReepers have invested more effort in trying to untangle Plamegate and have more knowledge of the case than has anybody in the MSM."

I am more cynical and maybe even more pessimistic about the Lame Stream Media than you are. My perception is that some in the LSM know many damaging parts of the Wilson lie timeline and would never intentionally point out that knowledge and recognition to anyone publicly, because they are as ideologically motivated as Joe Wilson and in agreement with his motivations.

98 posted on 10/27/2005 7:03:28 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: CanadianPete
"What could be the significance of it? That this is a plan hatched by Clinton."

Personally, my view is that if there was any "plan" and if Clinton had any role in it, it was just that, a role. I do not see him as an architect. Clinton is a public face for a lot of people that the public never sees and I think his major contribution is that public face, not as an architect.

99 posted on 10/27/2005 7:08:50 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Wuli
Supposedly there is an FBI investigation into the origins of the forged documents delivered to the US Emabassy in Rome eight months after Wilson's trip. But no one is talking about or even asking where is that investigation.

To the American people, that is more important than asking when did Scooter Libby talk to Judith Miller and what did he tell her and why.

You make a very good point.

If Fitzgerald isn't going to get to the bottom of this affair, but is simply going to roil the surface, the American people are being ill-served.

100 posted on 10/27/2005 9:27:52 AM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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