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To: Cronos

Trust me, no one is overlooking the Islamist aspect of France's situation but it goes far beyond Islamism's creeping influence.

In fact, one of the problems is that these thugs are distinctly NON-Islamic in their daily lives and that more of them are turning into more 'upright' terrorists. You know the kind, like the Nation of Islam--no drugs(at least no use or sales to the faithful) and more disciplined behavior--but hatred and racism at the base of the ideology. But these Muslims in France will be much more dangerous.

I just think it's way too easy to just blame these riots and France's problems on Islam vs. the West, when I see some of these SAME cultural issues(but to a lesser extent, or at least less separated) in the US with NON-MUSLIM underclass culture.

In fact, what he describes in the Zone could just as easily be blacks or Latinos in the "inner city" and the 'extremists' who are willing to provide meaning and discipline would be like Nation of Islam types or god knows what other garbage here. (whereas in France, radical Islamist terrorist beliefs are gaining more and more adherents--as they are here.) THe intiial problem (underclass pathology, multiculti inability to confront) is not with Islam specifically. But it is Islam that will make this terrible situation become fatal for Europe.


104 posted on 11/04/2005 12:12:07 AM PST by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: Skywalk
But it is Islam that will make this terrible situation become fatal for Europe.

The US has experienced and handled racist riots in the past. Riots alone are not a lethal problem to western nations. Granted in Los Angeles we had to call in Marines from Camp Pendleton. The National French Police force is armed with machine guns and they have armored cars. They have the weapons to handle the situation. Personally I was greeted by two machine gun wielding representatives of the National French Police Force in the Nice airport last year. The immediate question is will French politicians put their petty political ambitions ahead of national security issues ? We already know that leftist within the US, will not. What France and Western nations definitely cannot handle is a collusion or melding of Islamic Extremists with our traditional disgruntled occasionally rioting populations. The US does have racist problems within certain communities. For example, within the past year I personally experienced racism against whites from blacks in Cincinnati. A black waitress refused to serve me and my white partner. She then immediately served a couple of blacks who had just entered. Then the white cook walked out and asked if we had been served yet. We replied no, and he just grunted something in disgust and walked away. Me and my partner immediately got up and left. I did not mind it at all since I was not looking forward to a 'Steak and Shake'. It is not what I consider a healthy meal anyway but it was late at night. We ended up in a 'Waffle House' and I ordered a breakfast and ended up with a plate of grease.

109 posted on 11/04/2005 1:38:16 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: Skywalk
Nation of Islam types or god knows what other garbage here

This is not an attack on you but I find that a big part of our problem is many of us, in our darker moments, think of the under-class as garbage. It could be that I have mis-interpreted your remark and I apologize in advance it I have. But, no matter how horrid people act they are still humans with souls and they are loved by God.

Other than being a very good article about the specifics of the current situation in France the article is marvelous in that it shows how history repeats itself over and over again. When I read about the "cheap labor" being brought in to France to solve a temporary labor shortage I was reminded of Abraham, Joseph and the Hebrews in Egypt.

I wonder how many times a government has found itself in a similar situation? Look at what happened to the poor Egyptians who thought they could continue to "use" their cheap labor and didn't they complain over and over again about the Jewish tribes over-populating Egypt? As I recall there was a little "plan" devised by Pharaoh to "fix" the problem, which of course didn't work. The big difference, I guess, is that the Hebrews wanted to leave Egypt. I'm sure there are French citizens who will soon begin, if they haven't already, to consider paying the North Africans to return to the "old country."

Don't Muslims consider themselves to be descendants of Abraham as well? I wonder how they read and interpret the Covenant made by God with Abraham.

113 posted on 11/04/2005 3:10:52 AM PST by Diva
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