[NZerFromHK]

This is what I wrote on another thread about Canada. I said it before but I will not again, that Canada's anti-Americanism is not entirely or even mainly the faults of French in Quebec. It is the English Canada's power broker, Ontario, that exhibits the most problems:

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Right from the beginning of time Canada has always been anti-American. The original English Canadians were Americans who opposed the American War of Independence (what you call the American Revolutionary War) and after the Treaty of Paris was signed in 1783 the Loyalists followed British north to Canada. Even today Canada still honours the United Empire Loyalists as they came to be called in the country. Their descendants have been the power brokers in Ontario's cities like London, Peterborough, Toronto (originally named York), Kingston, and Ottawa.

When Canada was confederated in 1867 the drafters of the constitution for Canada such as Sir John A. MacDonald decided a "strong and orderly government" was the business - they think the lessons from the US Civil War was to increase government "stability" and thus decided to opt for an entirely appointed Senate and that none of the provinces besides Ontario and Quebec could get equal representations in the Senate itself. (Yes, I know Canadian Senate seats were decided as equal representations across regions, but US and Australia decided to have equal representations for all states). Decades later, Australia drafters of the Australian constitution such as Sir Edmund Barton, are not impressed with the Canadian Senate such that they moved the Australian Senate designs to the American side.

Fast forward to the late 19th century. In the last period of Queen Victoria's reign signs of contemporary Canadian pacifism and leftism is already manifest in its elites. Said Sir Charles Tupper, Prime Minister in 1896, "Canada," he explained, "shall dominate the American continent, not in aggression or materialism, but in the arts of peace, in the greatness of its institutions, in the broadness of its culture, and in the lofty moral character of its people." Tupper is English Canadian, a Conservative Party politician, and is from Nova Scotia. His beliefs reflect the High Toryism of English Canadian power brokers, and it is safe to see that on a paractical policy level, High Toryism and socialism is essentially identical.

The attachment of English Canada (read: Ontario) to the Mother Country could be seen as a jest against the United States. Back in the days when the sun never set on the British Empire, English Canada supported the Empire due to pride of the Empire's accomplishments and that "We are not like the savage Americans".

When the British Empire was being dismantled in the 1950s/60s this sent a shock wave to English Canada. On one hand, they became resentful to the US's eclipse of Britain's power and making the Empire no more, and on the other hand they realized they can't rely on following Britain to achieve anti-American stance anymore in the age of Special Relationships. If you follow Britain it now means you must support Uncle Sam, that breakaway colony! How terrible! At this point, socialism and trans-national pacifism started to acquire anti-American tones. So voila, English Canada now make allegiance to the United Nations and intellectual leftism to fill in the vacuums of British Empire.

And on domestic policy it is even easier. When you have inherited a High Tory belief of paternalism (High Toryism is particular influential in English Canada, more so than Australia and even NZ), adopting socialism is not that hard.

And even today their High Tory attitudes are reflected in how they describe individual soldiers fight. It is not uncommon to find Canadians extolling the individual valour of Canadian, British, Australian, and NZ soldiers while dismissing Yanks as "rubbish wimps that depend on technical gadgets to get by". The "We the British-influenced armed forces are the best quality" stance taken by Canadians in general reads no different from contemporary British High Tory commentators like Sir Max Hastings, Sir Simon Jenkins, Matthew Parris, or Sir Peregrine Worsthorne. English Canada is not in fact socialist - it has bits of socialism mixed with High Toryism.

Contemporary Canada suffers from a lethal cocktail of High Tory snobbery, Fabian socialism, and Quebecoise federalists desire to emulate contemporary France in socialism.

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[NZerFromHK]

Ping to Australian FRers. The reason why Canada tilts Left. Thank God that NSW and even Victoria aren't as leftist as Ontario, and so Australia largely escapes the insane leftism that grips Canada.

[NZerFromHK]

Correction to post 9: it should be "This is what I wrote on another thread about Canada. I said it before but I will say it again..."

[NZerFromHK]

Ping! I'm interested to know, given that Canada nationally is effectively governed by Ontario (much more politically statist than the Western provinces), why is there such a less different political regional variations between NSW and Victoria and the rest of the states, and do NSW and VIC dominate Australian federal politics they way Ontario and Quebec do in Canada? Any answer would be appreciated.

[Carry_Okie]

Thank you for a great summary.

It explains a lot.

[GMMAC]

These would have been half truths coupled with with undue simplifications and generalizations fifty or sixty years ago. Now, given that they ignore virtually all that has changed since WWII, they're even more misleading and of even less value.

As but two examples, your analysis completely ignores the decided impact of - not only post-WWII - but all 20th century immigration. Plus, aside from a primarily non-British influx having more than left its mark, what of the somewhere in the vicinity of 100,000 generally well educated and well connected U.S. draft dodgers and military deserters who arrived here in the 60's and early 70's?

Like socialist cadres anywhere, they've since wormed their way into virtually every culturally and politically sensitive nook and cranny in the nation. Next time you hear especially virulent anti-Americanism coming from up this way, if you follow it back to the source, odds are you'll find either one these vermin or someone they've helped brainwash within our public schools and universities.

While this isn't to say there hasn't been historic rivalry between the two nations, actions and attitudes related to World Wars I & II and Korea attest that it was principally of a 'between brothers' nature prior to the Vietnam-era arrival of the literal dregs of American society.

On a personal basis, I find your 'High Tory' theorizations and generalizations with respect to Canadian Conservatives especially offensive.
My family, aside from having paid its social and military dues over the same time-frame, can document its Conservative ties going back almost a century. Yet, my paternal grandmother chose to receive her nursing education stateside and was decorated for her WWI service in America's Harvard Surgical Unit. Further, both my wife and I are proud to have cousins who served in Vietnam - including one listed on the 'Black Wall' in Washington DC.

In short, here's the authentic face of "TRUE BLUE" Canadian Conservativism with respect to America:

BTW, I know, I was there...
... in downtown Toronto, Ontario.

[Fred Nerks]

Wow! That sounds as if it's terminal! (And a great history lesson btw.)