In Defense of Christian Conservatives [Answer to ADL Abe Foxman]

Toward Tradition ^ | Nov. 9, 2005 | Daniel Lapin

[sageb1]

No, SSPX is certainly not "small." There are problems between them and the Vatican.

[sageb1]

You may be interested in this discussion.

[familyop]

"There are problems between them and the Vatican."

Yes. I noticed that.

[familyop]

There are also quite a few Protestant churches, other groups and individuals opposing Judaism and Israel. Foxman doesn't help the situation any. He works against morality and serves as an example for Nazis to falsely assign to all.

[sageb1]

There is some amount of irony here with SSPX so far to the right and the problem with left-leaning liberal Christians, whether Protestant or Catholic.

I just wish all Christians would realize they have a common enemy - Islam and Secular Humanism.

[Nam Vet]

Thanks for all of your pings to the Israel / Jewish threads. It's either you, Salem, SJackson or somebody. Thanks all anyway. I read all the threads (or most of them) but rarely comment.

Just chiming in now, but my observations after 9/11 show me that too many Jews distrusted we Christian Conservatives as much as they distrust the moose-limbs. How can some turn down a few Christian guards at a Jewish Center or Hospital immediately after such an attack? Do they REALLY think we are the enemy?

Actually sometimes I think I love and respect Israel and His chosen people more than they really do !

Nam Vet

[Nam Vet]

Someone needs to ping the Christian supporters of Israel list.

You have many more than you know. Many are pinged and read, just don't talk much.

Nam Vet

[Nam Vet]

I agree.

Nam Vet

[Seeing More Clearly Now]

Foxman was one of the small number of "hidden children" who survived the war because they were hidden by Christian individuals or Christian institutions. A Christian nanny hid him and saved his life, but after the war wanted to keep him a Christian and refused to give him back to his parents. He is grateful to have been saved, but his views are perhaps affected by his own experience. http://www.adl.org/media_watch/newspapers/20050110-NYT.htm

[gobucks]

Thus anyone who loathes the values of secular liberalism surely must hate the values of Judaism since they are the same. Therefore, any conservative is, by definition, an anti-Semite.

A refreshing analysis. Yes, I frequently am accused of this myself, despite the attention I direct toward the words of two Jews, Jesus and Paul. It took way too long to figure it out the cause of the dissonance. Fantastic article.

[unionblue83]

I concur. Great article. There's a great read on Front Page Magazine online. On the title page about halfway down its a link called "Big Lies: Demolishing the Myths of the Propoganda War Against Israel." Lots of facts and well written.

[Convert from ECUSA]

WOW!

For once, I'm speechless (a rare occurrence!)

To Rabbi Lapin from this Virginia Catholic: God bless you real, real good! You are a 100% mensch! Your words mean more to me than I can put in words, thank you sir!

Alouette, thank you very much for posting this, it truly made my day. God bless you real good, too!

[Zionist Conspirator]

Foxman was one of the small number of "hidden children" who survived the war because they were hidden by Christian individuals or Christian institutions. A Christian nanny hid him and saved his life, but after the war wanted to keep him a Christian and refused to give him back to his parents. He is grateful to have been saved, but his views are perhaps affected by his own experience.

Perhaps he should consider practicing Judaism.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Thanks. I'll check the link, but I wouldn't call them politically right either. Nutcases are more like it. If this is what Zionist Conspirator was referring to, he/she should have said so. I took great offense at those comments and most Roman Catholics would also. Such narrow-minded comments are part of the problem - not the solution.

Sageb1, I am sorry that what I said offended you. I hope you realize that I was not referring to "conservative Catholics" in general but to a certain type of ultra-ultra-right Catholic such as the Feeneyites at the St. Benedict Center (one of the articles at their website is entitled "The Chosen People is now the Accursed Race"), the sedevacantists, the Sobrans and Buchanans, the distributivists (though distributivism is really based on the allotment of the Land to the Tribes), the Sungenises and Metatics, and such like (much as I appreciate their defense of the historicity of the Hebrew Bible). Evidently you are not familiar with "the traditionalist movement." I hope you realize that I am by and large an admirer of the new Pope and wish him well, and even defended him against Israeli criticism a few months back. However, no matter how pro-Israel American Catholic conservatives or some in the hierarchy might be, Catholic theology simply disallows the same level of support for Jewish peoplehood that Fundamentalist Protestants have.

Also please note that I mentioned also the ancient ethnic eastern and oriental churches which usually fly under the radar screen. Even when not actively anti-Semitic (as they seldom are, at least in the West), they share the same classical ecclesiology of the Catholic Church, holding the Church to be the "new Israel" and continuing Jewish peoplehood and loyalty to the Torah to be a dangerous delusion.

I was Catholic for six years, and I am very conflated about these issues. "Philo-Semitic" Catholics tend to be very liberal, while the more conservative Catholics (whom I support in many areas) are less sympathetic to Jews and Israel. I take no pleasure in the way things are. I simply report them.

You have a good heart, and I thank you for that. I am also glad that you are a conservative Catholic who supports Israel and not someone like Rosemary Radford Reuther (or whatever her name is).

I hope this will mitigate at least somewhat the pain my words caused you.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I think perhaps you are right about some ultra-ultra-ultra traditionalist Catholics being anti-Semitic, but these will be the oddballs who contemptuously oppose every 20th century Pope, and who particularly execrate John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul II, and Benedict XVI. Which means that "normal" conservative Catholics would not even see them as being Catholic except in some menacing, fun-house-mirror-gone-to-hell kind of way.

Catholics are a funny lot, though.

Think of Dorothy Day (1897-1980), probably the most important lay leader in the history of the Catholic Church in the USA. She was as conservative as you can get religiously (loved the ancient liturgy, prayed the Rosary daily, revered the Pope, upheld traditional morality at impressive personal cost, lived the Works of Mercy every day also at impressive personal cost), a lifelong, warm friend of Jews, of Israel and the People of Israel. Now (and this makes me sick at heart) she's very much "approved" by the pro-Palestinian Catholic Left --- even if they don't agree with her religiously AT ALL --- because she was a lifelong pacifist.

Yes, she was. In the mold of St. Francis of Assisi --- and not Michael Moore!

Dorothy Day, pray for us!
Francis of Assisi, pray for us!
Peace to Jerusalem!
Shalom!

[GarySpFc]

Ping

[sageb1]

Thank you. I do not, as a rule, take offense easily. I was so amazed and delighted with the rabbi's reply to Foxman that I sent it to my priest. I guess I was just taken aback for a moment. I appreciate your explanation.

[antisocial]

"Dear Fundamentalist Biblicist friends of Israel: please remain strong, despite all the attacks on you coming from every possible quarter"

Thanks for the kind words. We have a TV channel in Midland,Texas that airs many programs about the Hebraic roots of Christianity. They have a nightly news broadcast of Israel National news, and Rabbi Richman has a weekly program. If you have time check out their website: (especially the bookstore)

http://www.ptcbglc.com/

[Godzilla]

Remarkable article by a very articulate and honorable man. What he left out is the fact that the liberal churches are the ones that most directly attack Israel, noting the recent divestments of Israeli stock, etc by a liberal church.

[Mr. Mulliner]

When I lived in Seattle, I e-mailed Rabbi Lapin once to invite him to teach a men's Bible study on the Psalms. He very graciously denied, saying that he was fully occupied with the final stages of the writing of his book, America's Real War. That was not the working title of the book, however. He told me that his working subtitle was "An Orthodox Rabbi Makes the Case for Christianity." Apparently his publisher changed the title.