In Defense of Christian Conservatives [Answer to ADL Abe Foxman]

Toward Tradition ^ | Nov. 9, 2005 | Daniel Lapin

[Gamecock]

A great article. Thanks for posting it....

GC

[dervish]

"There are also quite a few Protestant churches, other groups and individuals opposing Judaism and Israel. Foxman doesn't help the situation any."

http://www.adl.org/interfaith/joint_letter2.asp
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/IslME_62/4782_62.htm
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0704/23presby.html
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ChJew_31/4568_31.htm

When you paint Foxman's wrongs with too wide a brush, you undermine your legitimate gripes.

[Campion]

I hope you realize that I was not referring to "conservative Catholics" in general but to a certain type of ultra-ultra-right Catholic such as the Feeneyites at the St. Benedict Center (one of the articles at their website is entitled "The Chosen People is now the Accursed Race"), the sedevacantists, the Sobrans and Buchanans, the distributivists (though distributivism is really based on the allotment of the Land to the Tribes), the Sungenises and Metatics, and such like (much as I appreciate their defense of the historicity of the Hebrew Bible).

Most, not all but most, of the folks you list are in some sort of impaired or non-existent communion with Rome, as is the SSPX mentioned by another poster. It's somewhat inaccurate to characterize them, as you did in a previous post, as "Roman Catholic".

[Sam Gamgee]

Here's a Christian who believes in separation of Church and state. I believe the reason this was such an important principle was to avoid the STATE from infecting the Church. The trend in Europe was for bishops to be paid and staffed by the state - this lead to villains with no Christian faith whatsoever from becoming bishops. To safeguard the state was never an objective as far as I can tell - although one of the intentions was likely to safeguard the people from the tyranny of one Christian denomination over another.

Sadly there are a handful of Christians who use their faith to harbour racism against Jews; but the majority of the Jewish racism is not religiously based whatsoever.

[Sam Gamgee]

I agree at least that the US is blessed for its treatment of Jews. I also believe that God promises to curse those that curse the Jew. Perhaps that's why the middle east outside Israel is stuck in th 1200s?

[joesnuffy]

Foxman is one of those atheist commies who hides behind the star of David taking pot shots at Christians or any of American culture he hates or wants to see destroyed.

Anyone who comes back to criticize his politics or social policy plans gets labeled anti Semitic

Abraham was a pagan until God personally established a covenant relationship with Abraham...apart from personal relationship with God how can one honestly call himself a Jew?

imo

[Zionist Conspirator]

Dorothy Day is one of those strange lynchpins that connect the Left and Right (and I don't mean that as an insult to her at all). She's also a big heroine to the folks at Traditional Catholic Reflections, a strange site that attacks the left and ultra-right, endorses later, more radical teachings of Martin Luther King, Jr., yet posts stuff by Justin Raimondo.

BTW, thank G-d for all the people who keep traditional, G-dly morality from being completely hijacked and buried by the economic social Darwinists. They've got some religion people thinking the highest moral duty is to reduce the government to the size of a microbe and enable the laws of competition to kill off weaklings.

[Zionist Conspirator]

I assume this is Rabbi Chayyim Richman of Jerusalem's Temple Institute? He is indeed a great man. May the Holy House of G-d be rebuilt soon, speedily, and in our days!

[Zionist Conspirator]

Most, not all but most, of the folks you list are in some sort of impaired or non-existent communion with Rome, as is the SSPX mentioned by another poster. It's somewhat inaccurate to characterize them, as you did in a previous post, as "Roman Catholic".

I'm sort of in an odd position here. I'm totally against these people when it comes to their anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism, but if we suddenly started talking about Biblical inerrancy or science I'd agree more with them than with you. The thing is, I don't put "tolerance" up on a pedestal as some sort of unique good to which all others are subordinate. For all their philo-Semitism, I'm also very alienated from liberal Catholics (and even what today pass for "mainstream Catholics"). There simply isn't any other way to say it.

Only Fundamentalist Protestants mix a thoroughly Bibilcally-based philo-Semitism and pro-Zionism with a conservative theology. That should make them the wonder of the world, but unfortunately most Jews seem to think they are the direct lineal descendants of the mobs who committed the pogroms in Europe. Like the ancient Jewish chr*stians, they live in a religious no-man's land, mixing two diametrically opposes theologies (because their Bible consists of both "testaments") and being misunderstood and despised by both sides.

[Preachin']

"Sadly there are a handful of Christians who use their faith to harbor racism against Jews".

If they are racist, they aren't really Christian.

They just use it as a "moral pretense".

[bethtopaz]

Please add me to the ping list. Great article!

[Jane Austen]

Wishing you a safe return from Iraq.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Foxman was one of the small number of "hidden children" who survived the war because they were hidden by Christian individuals or Christian institutions. A Christian nanny hid him and saved his life, but after the war wanted to keep him a Christian and refused to give him back to his parents. He is grateful to have been saved, but his views are perhaps affected by his own experience.

Say . . .

You know, there are conspiracy theorists out there who claim that Foxman is a Jesuit agent who attacked The Passion so ferociously in order to increase its audience. I can see where this Marrano-like background might play into such speculations.

[familyop]

By "Foxman doesn't help the situation any," I was referring to his efforts with those mainstream Christian churches in opposition against justice for us.

"What does G-d demands of gentiles to get to Olam Ha'aba ["The World-"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/06-Jewish-Thought/section-20.html

Where's our justice?

http://www.adl.org/bibliography/default.asp?whichCat=2&whichSubCat=46
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/DiRaB_41/4535_41.htm

...and not only on that issue. Most of the families in our USA are broken (divorce) or kept from even forming (cohabitation) in order to fatten the revenues of social workers, psychologists and lawyers. Deluded, defiled young mothers are used to enlarge the labor market. The children are separated from their fathers and reared by "professionals."

Abe Foxman is with the immoral left (as are also too many Republicans). Many Orthodox Jews disagree with him on his immorality, too, as do many who are in transition (of whom non-mystical, non-spiritual, conservative Noachides are in transition for a long time to come, due to the process of supervision being relegated to Chassidim).

I say that his opposition against what is right for the nations is not helping the situation. Neo-Nazis point to his anti-family efforts to entice their recruits. Others point to his efforts to prevent more movement toward Judaism.

[familyop]

On a more personal mention, because of efforts, paranoia and expansions of the social left, I am isolated and must study on my own (I'm not a spiritualist, mysticist kind of man), which will bring rejection (even though I learned much previously as a Christian without knowing that anything was against learning). Calls to Orthodox who are not spiritualists/mysticists are rejected.

So be it.

[Nihil Obstat]

Hey Mrs. Don-o,

Totally off topic but you had a post about helping out a certain lawyer with a certain case. I didn't get a chance to read that website address. Can you freepmail me?

[dervish]

Okay now I understand your point, and you are correct. Foxman and the ADL may condemn the position of liberal churches on Israel, but on everything else he is right there with them.

[familyop]

You said it better than I did. [g]

[kstewskis]

Daniel Lapin *ping!*

[Victoria Delsoul]

Thanks for the ping, Karen.