Is Intelligent Design a Bad Scientific Theory or a Non-Scientific Theory?

Tech Central Station ^ | 11/10/2005 | Uriah Kriegel

[Dimensio]

Why?

Because you made it an integral part of your argument. Why should I believe you if you're not willing to support your statistics? Why shouldn't I believe that you just made them up to make your argument look good?

[Dimensio]

I find something deeply troubling about the fact that a creationist has to ask why he or she is expected to back up his or her claims with evidence.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

You got me. It's been a while since I have read Exodus; usually when you see the Ten Commandments posted all that is written is the Commandments.

As for the rest of your questions, no I don't believe that God actually wrote them. I don't believe in the God of the Bible anymore. I'll back out of this theological discussion and stick with the science.

Hope that clears things up.

[Thatcherite]

Why, if there is noone to ultimately answer to, should anyone worry about "living peacefully" with neighbors? That is a principle for the weak to live by, not the strong and clever. If I have the most powerful navy, why not impose "gunboat" diplomacy on lesser nations? If I have the most powerful army, why not impose my will on weaker peoples? If I'm stronger than my neighbor why not take his wife, car, house and money? The existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre says that "If God is dead, everything is permitted." In other words, if there is no supreme being to lay down the moral law, each individual is free to do as he or she pleases. Without a divine lawgiver, there can be no universal moral law.

Societies based on such principals don't work. They are out-competed very effectively by societies that promote co-operation. Easy when you think about it, and mathematically demonstrable. Try googling the "repeated prisoner's dilemma" to see why benefits accrue from *not* picking the option with the biggest payoff all the time, if that option involves screwing your neighbour. Oddly enough the creationist's arch-demon Dawkins has done a lot of work in this area in his guise as a real biologist, rather than a pop-biologist.

[Junior]

You forget we are social critters. We live in groups because we need cooperation among individuals to survive. If you steal my wife or my donkey, you can't be trusted by the rest of the group so you'll be stuck on your own -- at which point your life expectancy goes way down.

As I've pointed out on this very thread, rules for living together are so important people throughout the world came up with comparable systems without Divine intervention. Attributing such rules to the Almighty might make them more palatable to those unable or unwilling to think rationally (which, unfortunately, is the great majority of the species), but that does not necessarily make them Divinely inspired.

[Thatcherite]

See 284

[Junior]

Remember, 79 percent of all statistics are just made up.

[xzins]

Come on now....people are stealing each other's wives, money, and donkeys all over the place (well....maybe not donkeys :>) Cosmo and The National Enquirer wouldn't have any circulation at all if it weren't for the "who shagged who" stories.

And it doesn't matter at all.

Unless....

It's GOD'S rule.

[ml1954]

That statement about the six day creation comes from the Ten Commandments (Exodus Chapter 20).

I see your point. While Genesis wasn't written on stone tablets the commandments reference it.

[P-Marlowe]

Nothing in there about Genesis being written on stone tablets. Did you make that up?

Where did I say that Genesis was written upon stone tablets?

OK, maybe the third time is the charm. Listen closely:

The Ten commandments were written in stone by the hand of God. The Ten Commandments are stated in Exodus chapter 20. On the tablets of stone the following statement was written:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Now you can either believe that God spoke those words or you can deny that God gave Moses the Ten Commandments.

Maybe it's all a bunch of hokey. Fine, I can understand someone who believes that the whole Moses saga is just a bunch of hokey. what I can't understand is how those who believe that is a bunch of Hokey can claim to believe in Jesus, who confirmed the factual basis for the whole story of Genesis from Adam and Eve, to Noah, to Moses, to Jonah, to Daniel.

So if you don't believe that God gave that statement to Moses, then don't pretend you believe in the Jesus of the Bible or even the God of the Bible. Find a new God. Worship him, or her, or it.

[TChad]

When Einstein came up with the theory of relativity, the first thing he did was to make a concrete prediction: he predicted that a certain planet must exist in such-and-such a place even though it had never been observed before. If it turned out that the planet did not exist, his theory would be refuted. In 1919, 14 years after the advent of Special Relativity, the planet was discovered exactly where he said.

This is not my field, but I think that the author is completely wrong. Einstein didn't predict the existence of any new planets. The author is apparently referring to the use of General Relativity to help explain the the orbit of Mercury.

[Thatcherite]

So, if you weren't restrained by your belief in God you'd feel competely justified in doing whatever immoral behaviour entered your head. To quote you, "It doesn't matter at all" if God doesn't exist. Can you please notify your local police department of your lack of an innate moral sense, in case you ever get a crisis of faith. I sure hope that I don't live near you, I'd be really worried that something might shake your faith in God and then you might murder me if you wanted my possessions or my wife, as apparently your faith is the only thing stopping you from such acts.

[xzins]

see 288.

Let's not pretend it isn't happening. Every bit of research says it is....and a lot.

Society is thriving as it always has.

It only matters when the individual gets his turn to stand before God.

[Junior]

What I find most troubling is that creationists believe everyone would act depraved if it weren't for God keeping us in check. What this actually means is that creationists would act depraved if they didn't believe God was riding herd on them.

Another implication in this belief is that creationists are not acting good because it is the right thing to do, but simply because they want rewards in an afterlife, or at least to avoid punishment.

[xzins]

If there is no God, then there is no morality.

Ever wonder why atheistic socialism had no problem murdering millions?

[ml1954]

So if you don't believe that God gave that statement to Moses...

I just conceded your point regarding Exodus 20 just before this post. However, since we're on the topic of Exodus, what do you think about Exodus 21?

[JohnnyM]

if they made that claim then they are fools.

JM

[P-Marlowe]

I see your point.

Cool

While Genesis wasn't written on stone tablets the commandments reference it.

Exactly. What the Ten Commandments do is to confirm the factual basis for the story in Genesis Chapter 1. So if you are to keep the commandments, you have to accept the factual basis of the Creation account.

If there is no factual basis for the Creation story in Genesis, then that would make God a liar (and a violator of his own commandment not to bear false witness).

Did God lie?

Or are the Ten Commandments just a bunch of spiritual hokey?

Or is there a possibility that what God stated in Exodus Chapter 20 is the God's honest truth?

[LiteKeeper]

YEC INTREP

[JohnnyM]

I am not saying that. But there are cases, as in the one cited in Ichy's post, where more information would be needed to make an accurate classification.

JM