Posted on 11/10/2005 12:17:59 PM PST by NormsRevenge
I guess in answer to your question I have to go back to my sense of what God expects of us. I think He expects really a lot and I don't think He often gets it. The notion of our guys having, as you say, "a pretty damn good idea of who it is they have locked up" is exactly the problem. The Old Testament lays out an incredibly stringent burden of proof in legal cases--multiple eyewitnesses, etc. The Constitution echoes that. Nowhere does it say that punishment--and torture is punishment, whatever its goal--can be meted out if the arresting officer has a pretty damn good idea of who it is he has locked up. God is always watching, whether it's the dictator's henchmen or the CIA guy in an unnamed Eastern European country.
I don't see why anyone on the Left should be upset about this. I mean, after all, the dirt-bags are being housed in Soviet-era compounds; and the Soviet Union was Paradise on earth.
Repeat that calmly when you are on your knees having your throat cut.
When the only people that point out their hypocrisy is talk-radio & conservative forums... they can lie all they want. Our elected Republicans are tongueless, cowering pissants.
Rear - Echelon - Mother -F***er
Jefferson could have started by practicing what he preached you know.
Yep--couldn't we all!
I've got news for you. The chances of "innocent" prisoners being in one of those prisons is practically zero and nil - and "nil" is winning.
These killers are well-vetted before they even get the chance of being an honored guest in one of these places.
Shed not a tear for any of these vicious murderers. You're wasting your time and your tears. Shed them instead for their tortured, dead victims. Rather, just pray they never again see the light of day - especially in your neighborhood or the neighborhood of somebody you love!
legal casesThese are not "legal cases". This is war. The winner will be around later to be nice to others (or not, in the case of the Islamofacists). The losers won't even be remembered.
You are assuming to know things that only God can know.
It's not war. It's not a fight between armed combatants. It's unarmed detainees being delivered summary justice.
I'm not assuming any such thing.
I'm only pointing out what He says! This is His warning, not mine.
Where are we told that God puts in an individual human being's hands the right to assess guilt and innocence and assign punishment? "Vengeance is Mine, sayeth the Lord: I will repay." Given that God knows that we need, in human affairs, to take action to protect ourselves, he lays out institutions and processes for trying to bring His will into the process of administering justice. In all of these processes the hand of the prosecutor and the accuser is stayed, in some way, by collective and unbiased decision making. This is one of God's great gifts to us.
*sigh*
... among other places...
For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. (Romans 13:3,4)
Rulers are given authority and responsiblity to make the call in secular dealings, but will bear the judgment of God for their calls - both for good and evil.
Does this mean that anybody can do anything to anybody, if they think they're right--if they think of themself as "the ruler"--and God will sort it out later? Anybody could take that quote and use it to justify anything. I don't think God wants us to leave it to Him to sort it out later. I think he wants us to take the responsibility for Justice here and now--not just the responsibility for survival. If it was only about survival, God wouldn't have bothered to give us the Word. But this is theology and the discussion goes on for millenia, literally, and in the end you and I are going to see what we need to see in the text.
As President Bush says, "... and we'll bring 'em to justice!".
We are talking about people who would plant a nuclear weapon in any city in this country of ours. If you don't see that as war, then you're daft.
The only thing holding those scumbacks back, the only thing stopping them, the only thing restraining them from killing more Americans than have ever died in all the "official" wars we've ever fought in, is the scumbags just don't happen to have their scumbag hands on the bloody weaponry yet.
But given enough time, and enough people like you, and they'll get their wish. And then you can kiss your ass and all the asses of all the people you know bloody good bye.
and torture is punishmentWrong. Failure. Grade: F.
You don't get it.
You lose the contest.
Buzzer for you.
Trap door under your feet.
Go to the corner; put on a duncecap.
Torture to gain information from scumbags who want to kill as many innocent Americans as they possibly can is not punishment of scumbags, but protection of innocent Americans.
I'm really beginning to question your motives here.
God is always watching, whether it's the dictator's henchmen or the CIA guy in an unnamed Eastern European country.Are you a Quaker?
In spirit, if not actually.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.