Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Fester Chugabrew; CarolinaGuitarman; WildHorseCrash; BlueStateDepression; highball; ...
Fester, you have given us a very clear example of why the current incarnation of ID is not nor can be considered science.

You have stated that absolutely everything of 'order' (a slippery term at best), from the laws of physics to a cube of water shows evidence of design. More than that you have repeatedly confirmed that the designer is and can only be the Christian God.

Science is not just something people do, it is a methodology, a set of logical steps based on the same principles as formal critical thinking, an algorithm that has developed over time to enable us to determine with a level of certainty beyond what previous methods, or lack of methods, gave us, accurate knowledge of our natural surroundings. A major part of that certainty comes from our ability to devise and perform tests that rely heavily on the consistency we can expect from our natural surroundings; that consistency which we describe mathematically and label 'law'.

You have created a universe where everything and anything that can be construed as having 'order' is evidence of a designer, a designer that you have given the power to not only 'create' irrespective of the laws of physics but can also interfere at will with the observation, investigation and testing of all phenomena.

There is no way to conclusively know that this designer is or is not interfering with a given test. Since the scientific method was developed to give us some level of certainty beyond what simple observation gives us, anything that decreases that certainty will also decrease the benefit of using the scientific method and may take us back to the level of uncertainty we had before the development of the scientific method. In this case, science becomes meaningless.

Because you desire the universe to not only be designed, but designed by your specific God, and I believe you understand the difficulty a designer that is essentially above physical laws introduces to, and in fact invalidates, the scientific method, you have broadened the definition of science to be simply observation by a human. This enables you to say, without evidence I must add, that any putative 'order' in the universe is evidence of a non-human designer, going so far as to implicitly equate order with design. Your redefinition of science and consequently the scientific method has made the term 'science' and the use of the scientific method meaningless.

Interestingly, if you insist that the designer of the universe can be tested for because he/she/it will not and has not interfered with the consistency of physical laws, then you have to accept the age of the universe, the age of the earth, the fossil record and all of evolution, all of which rely on the 'unchanging' universe.

1,114 posted on 11/18/2005 2:05:48 PM PST by b_sharp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1068 | View Replies ]


To: b_sharp
You have created a universe where everything and anything that can be construed as having 'order' is evidence of a designer, a designer that you have given the power to not only 'create' irrespective of the laws of physics but can also interfere at will with the observation, investigation and testing of all phenomena.

Excuse me, but I am only one small object of the creation, not the Creator. Furthermore, the Creator no more receives power from me than the sun receives power from plants. And although the Creator may indeed overstep what has typically been observed in my lifetime, science can, and does, carry on in discovering more and more evidence of intelligent design, single strands of DNA and cubic inches of water being small cases in point.

But it is your responsibilty to explain to the rest of us what might reasonably, scientifically, otherwise be behind the existence of this order; these physical attributes. Tell me why atoms retain their consistency if it is not due to any element of intelligence or design. It is a question your method of science cannot begin to address. It can only sit on its hands and say, "Duh. We don't know, and we can't know."

You'd sell science for a cheap pile of philosophy.

1,134 posted on 11/18/2005 3:26:47 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1114 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson