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Monbiot: The US used chemical weapons in Iraq - and then lied about it
Guardian ^ | 11/15/2005 | George Monbiot

Posted on 11/16/2005 7:13:36 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow

Did US troops use chemical weapons in Falluja? The answer is yes. The proof is not to be found in the documentary broadcast on Italian TV last week, which has generated gigabytes of hype on the internet. It's a turkey, whose evidence that white phosphorus was fired at Iraqi troops is flimsy and circumstantial. But the bloggers debating it found the smoking gun.

The first account they unearthed in a magazine published by the US army. In the March 2005 edition of Field Artillery, officers from the 2nd Infantry's fire support element boast about their role in the attack on Falluja in November last year: "White Phosphorous. WP proved to be an effective and versatile munition. We used it for screening missions at two breeches and, later in the fight, as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes when we could not get effects on them with HE [high explosive]. We fired 'shake and bake' missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out."

The second, in California's North County Times, was by a reporter embedded with the marines in the April 2004 siege of Falluja. "'Gun up!' Millikin yelled ... grabbing a white phosphorus round from a nearby ammo can and holding it over the tube. 'Fire!' Bogert yelled, as Millikin dropped it. The boom kicked dust around the pit as they ran through the drill again and again, sending a mixture of burning white phosphorus and high explosives they call 'shake'n'bake' into... buildings where insurgents have been spotted all week."

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: barkingmonbiot; iraq; monbiot; moonbat; oif; whitephosphorous
Moonbat on Willie Pete.
1 posted on 11/16/2005 7:13:37 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: Admin Moderator

Please edit the author field, if you would - it should be "George Monbiot", not simply "George" :)


2 posted on 11/16/2005 7:15:13 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: Senator Bedfellow

White Phosphorous is not a chemical weapon. It is an explosive.


3 posted on 11/16/2005 7:15:52 AM PST by Thane_Banquo ("Give a man a fish, make him a Democrat. Teach a man to fish, make him a Republican.")
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To: Thane_Banquo

LOL! While tear gas and stink bombs ARE chemical weapons. What a moron this guy is. Chemical weapons are used all the time, they just aren't lethal.


4 posted on 11/16/2005 7:17:37 AM PST by L98Fiero
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To: Senator Bedfellow

HMX, RDX even gunpowder is a chemical weapon under this definition.

The moonbats have taken over.


5 posted on 11/16/2005 7:18:57 AM PST by KeyWest
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To: Senator Bedfellow

This writer is in dire need of a dumb ass vaccine BUMP!


6 posted on 11/16/2005 7:19:36 AM PST by conservativecorner
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To: Senator Bedfellow

We have enough home-grown anti-American dingbats, should we really care what a Brit Leftist dingbat thinks...er...feels?


7 posted on 11/16/2005 7:22:23 AM PST by pawdoggie
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To: Senator Bedfellow

WP is an explosive, not a chemical weapon. So sorry, English moonbat twits... what was that you were saying about a smoking gun?


8 posted on 11/16/2005 7:23:35 AM PST by snowrip (Liberal? YOU HAVE NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT. Actually, you lack even a legitimate excuse.THE CHINESE)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

Wow...this guy's name actually is "moonbat."


9 posted on 11/16/2005 7:24:12 AM PST by July 4th (A vacant lot cancelled out my vote for Bush.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

Gee, we use bullets too, and they're propelled by CHEMICALS too !!!!


10 posted on 11/16/2005 7:26:01 AM PST by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border: I dare you to try and cross it. . .)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

WP is not a chemical weapon.


11 posted on 11/16/2005 7:28:06 AM PST by conserv13
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To: Senator Bedfellow
We used white phosphorous grenades in WWII against German pillboxes, and for screening, signaling, and illumination. They were common in Korea and Vietnam as well. Suddenly, this is a "human rights violation"? Please. Idiots like this refuse to see any evidence of real WMD's in Iraq while straining to find them among the force that brought down a dictatorship that actually used them against civilians.
12 posted on 11/16/2005 7:28:07 AM PST by andy58-in-nh
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To: Salgak

Come to think of it, lead and copper, both of them, are chemicals.


13 posted on 11/16/2005 7:31:30 AM PST by absalom01 (NRA,CRPA)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

White Phosphorus is not banned under any agreements... Technically TNT is a Chemical Weapon... does that mean we can't use mortar rounds?

Bloviating Nannooks of Inannity.


14 posted on 11/16/2005 7:33:14 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: KeyWest

We have moonbats in the Senate and Congress. Why is it so surprising that they are out and about among us?


15 posted on 11/16/2005 7:34:09 AM PST by Parmy
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To: Senator Bedfellow

I thought willie pete had been standard munition for decades. Wasn't WP one of the four standard type of rounds for a hand held grenade launcher ("blooper gun") back in 'Nam?


16 posted on 11/16/2005 7:34:47 AM PST by joebuck
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To: Senator Bedfellow

Consider the source. Monbiot is as hardened a leftwing anti-American agitator as exists in any press anywhere.


17 posted on 11/16/2005 7:36:50 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Senator Bedfellow

Well I guess in that case all weapons more advanced thean the bow or the bayonet are "Chemical" weapons because they depend on a chemical reaction to generate the gases that make the weapon fire.


18 posted on 11/16/2005 7:45:45 AM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: absalom01
Come to think of it, lead and copper, both of them, are chemicals.

And the troops, too. Don't forget about the troops. They're people, and people are made out of LOTS of chemicals. Bazillions of them. Since we've not been so enlightened by Le Guardian, we've gotta pull out our troops and can no longer use people to defend out country.

19 posted on 11/16/2005 7:48:10 AM PST by RedWhiteBlue
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To: Thane_Banquo

WP is not an explosive, but a smoke agent or an incendiary.


20 posted on 11/16/2005 7:48:45 AM PST by GSlob
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To: Senator Bedfellow
Monbiot is, of course, a moonbat who thinks the U.S. is eeeevil and believes every piece of negative propaganda so I believe it's significant that in this article (full of anti-U.S. propaganda) even he admits the Italian documentary was crap:

The proof is not to be found in the documentary broadcast on Italian TV last week, which has generated gigabytes of hype on the internet. It's a turkey, whose evidence that white phosphorus was fired at Iraqi troops is flimsy and circumstantial.

21 posted on 11/16/2005 7:49:47 AM PST by saquin
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To: Senator Bedfellow
Let me see... we use WP to flush out armed insurgents in a city that was surrounded and opportunities were afforded to non-combatants to leave before the Marines and Army went in.

Hmmmmm. Yes that was obviously unfair. These armed insurgents had every right to NOT be exposed to WP.

George needs to get a life.

22 posted on 11/16/2005 7:50:00 AM PST by Cliff Dweller ("get thar fustest with the mostest." GEN NB Forrest)
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To: All
I may mis-recollect, but I thought WP was considered an incendiary as opposed to an explosive munition? (But definitely not a chemical weapon in the form applied here.) As such, I'm not entirely sure it doesn't have a reduced application, vis a vis .50 cal.

Reportedly, .50 cal rounds are not supposed to be legal as anti-personnel rounds. Only anti-materiel. Not entirely sure how the new sniper rifles or for that matter, even the Vietnam era use of M2s in single shot mode with Starlight scopes square with that.

23 posted on 11/16/2005 7:53:49 AM PST by DK Zimmerman
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To: absalom01
Come to think of it, lead and copper, both of them, are chemicals.

The soldiers themselves are loaded with chemicals.

24 posted on 11/16/2005 7:57:06 AM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: GSlob

"You smell that? Do you smell that? Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of napalm in the morning."


25 posted on 11/16/2005 7:59:45 AM PST by nicko (CW3 (ret.) CPT, you need to just unass the AO; I know what I'm doing- Major, you're on your own.)
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To: DK Zimmerman
WP was considered an incendiary ....Bingo! WP is not explosive, but will auto-ignite at 86 deg F. Been used by the military forever, for fire bombs, tracer bullets, nighttime practice targets, etc.
26 posted on 11/16/2005 8:00:25 AM PST by bobsatwork
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To: Senator Bedfellow

And this is TRUE because the LEFTISTS say it is so! FACTS are just minor details that can be brushed aside at will.


27 posted on 11/16/2005 8:02:23 AM PST by PISANO (We will not tire......We will not falter.......We will NOT FAIL!!! .........GW Bush [Oct 2001])
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To: absalom01
And, God forbid, but DOD ALSO uses Dihydrogen Monoxide. It's gotta stop NOW !!! ;p
28 posted on 11/16/2005 8:24:25 AM PST by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border: I dare you to try and cross it. . .)
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To: bobsatwork
Unfortunately, I was only half right. (WP = incendiary is right)

While I KNOW I was trained that .50 cal was illegal in anti-personnel role (we weren't aiming at the guy, CPT, but his helmet and boots!). Apparently, it is incorrect. .50 cal IS legal for enemy troops.

On the other hand, WP use is unrestricted, but I've noted several places where it is explained that "the US has reserved the right to use WP" or words to that effect. Sounds like it is possible that in an extreme case, someone might be able to claim its application crossed a line.

29 posted on 11/16/2005 8:37:11 AM PST by DK Zimmerman
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To: Senator Bedfellow
We fired 'shake and bake' missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out."


30 posted on 11/16/2005 8:39:55 AM PST by Godzilla (Put the FUN back in dysfunctional.)
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To: July 4th

He's the origin of the term.


31 posted on 11/16/2005 8:51:04 AM PST by Joseph_CutlerUSA (New blogspot at "http://yankeestation.blogspot.com". Mostly military and political affairs.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow
 

Oh Lord

 

 

32 posted on 11/16/2005 8:53:37 AM PST by HawaiianGecko (Facts are neither debatable nor open to "I have a right to this opinion" nonsense.)
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To: July 4th
See this, if you're interested.
33 posted on 11/16/2005 8:56:20 AM PST by Joseph_CutlerUSA (New blogspot at "http://yankeestation.blogspot.com". Mostly military and political affairs.)
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To: Thane_Banquo
Explosive? Not really ... needs a small bursting charge to spread the chunks around. It's a very effective incendiary and obscurant, though.

Calling it a chemical weapon (and raising images of Mustard Gas or VX) is the height of yellow journalism. This nonsense is coming from the same mental midgets who rant and rave about depleted uranium.

34 posted on 11/16/2005 8:59:01 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: absalom01
Uranium, plutonium, and tritium are chemicals ...

< evil grin >

35 posted on 11/16/2005 9:01:01 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

All weapons are chemicals.

C4 is a chemical.
B3 is a chemical.
RDX is a chemical.
Copper-jacketed lead is a chemical.
PETN is a chemical.
AMPHO-slurry is a chemical.

We certainly use these a lot in combat with out any issues at all.


36 posted on 11/16/2005 9:06:12 AM PST by roaddog727 (P=3/8 A. or, P=plenty...............)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

Ummm, WP is not a "chemical weapon" any more than explosives are chemical weapons. WP is an incendiary and a smoke round. Technically, you're not supposed to use it on people, but equipment is OK.
AKs and RPGs are equipment...


37 posted on 11/16/2005 9:07:16 AM PST by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: DK Zimmerman
It is ok to use 'em against equipment. AKs, RPGs, and bandoleers are equipment ;)
38 posted on 11/16/2005 9:09:12 AM PST by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: Thane_Banquo
White Phosphorous is not a chemical weapon.

Sorry, this is the Guardian - it's a fact-free zone....

39 posted on 11/16/2005 11:42:24 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: dighton; aculeus

Barking Monbiot ping.


40 posted on 11/16/2005 1:42:56 PM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: Senator Bedfellow; aculeus
Scandalously, not one google hit for Barking Monbiot.

Let's get to work!

41 posted on 11/16/2005 1:53:11 PM PST by dighton
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To: dighton; Senator Bedfellow

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot


Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot

Barking Monbiot


42 posted on 11/16/2005 2:41:43 PM PST by aculeus
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