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Battle lines drawn over Vatican stance on gays
Reuters ^ | 11/23/2005 | Jason Szep

Posted on 11/23/2005 4:05:59 PM PST by craig_eddy

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To: Reaganesque

Well, the Ten Commandments are "problematic" in that not everyone counts them the same way--most Protestants, Orhodox Christians, and Jews count them one way, while Catholics and Lutherans count them a different way. They could combine the two systems and have 11 commandments, but still call them the Ten Commandments, just like there are 11 teams in the Big Ten conference. Of course Reagan's 11th commandment would have to be renumbered.


41 posted on 11/23/2005 6:08:13 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: craig_eddy

battle? what battle? if you stay in the Church, you follow Vatican teachings; otherwise you leave, it's really simple .. a battle is something that can be won.


42 posted on 11/23/2005 6:11:07 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: sinkspur

How do you explain the large number of celibate homosexuals who are functioning well as priests today?


Who says they are functioning well? I'll bet dollars to donuts that the homosexual priests are the same ones - the progressives - who are undermining traditional Church teaching across the whole spectrum of Catholic dogma.


43 posted on 11/23/2005 6:11:47 PM PST by Pittsburg Phil
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To: calrighty

Well, just think of what fun it will be to hear all the liberal Catholics and Protestants patiently explaining to God that He can't send them to Hell because it's only a metaphor and not a real place.


44 posted on 11/23/2005 6:34:30 PM PST by MarcusTulliusCicero
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To: Pittsburg Phil
Who says they are functioning well? I'll bet dollars to donuts that the homosexual priests are the same ones - the progressives - who are undermining traditional Church teaching across the whole spectrum of Catholic dogma.

Do you have examples?

45 posted on 11/23/2005 6:34:53 PM PST by sinkspur (Trust, but vilify.)
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To: sinkspur

The Catholic Church has long taught that homosexuality is inherently disordered behavior, so a "celibate homosexual" for all intents and purposes is no more capable of serving as a Catholic priest as a "well-behaved axe-murderer."


46 posted on 11/23/2005 6:35:24 PM PST by Alberta's Child (What it all boils down to is that no one's really got it figured out just yet.)
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To: Victoria Delsoul

Ping.


47 posted on 11/23/2005 6:35:40 PM PST by Alberta's Child (What it all boils down to is that no one's really got it figured out just yet.)
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To: TalBlack

They seem not to have notice the many Catholic who became evangelicals because they could not stomach the liberalism of their priests.


48 posted on 11/23/2005 6:37:34 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: MarcusTulliusCicero
Well, just think of what fun it will be to hear all the liberal Catholics and Protestants patiently explaining to God that He can't send them to Hell because it's only a metaphor and not a real place.

The Gospel last Sunday clearly indicated that it will be those who don't take care of "the least" who will be longing for air conditioning.

Isn't social justice a major tenet of this "liberalism" to which you are referring?

Perhaps it's best to end the speculation of who will end up in hell and pray, as John Paul II did, that no one goes there.

49 posted on 11/23/2005 6:40:10 PM PST by sinkspur (Trust, but vilify.)
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To: pabianice
Smart money says the Boston Catholic Church will split from the Vatican by 2015.

I'm probably not nearly as knowledgable on this subject as you are, so I'm willing to put up one thousand dollars on this if you give me ten to one odds that you are wrong. After all, you clearly are so much smarter than I am concerning this but I'm still willing to put up my dumb dollars.

50 posted on 11/23/2005 6:44:23 PM PST by johniegrad
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To: Alberta's Child
The Catholic Church has long taught that homosexuality is inherently disordered behavior, so a "celibate homosexual" for all intents and purposes is no more capable of serving as a Catholic priest as a "well-behaved axe-murderer."

But they are. Figures on the number of homosexuals in the priesthood range from 10% to 50%.

If Catholics are benefitting from the ministry of celibate homosexuals--and they clearly are--it's simply not true that they cannot function as Catholic priests.

The Vatican document recognizes that fact.

51 posted on 11/23/2005 6:46:49 PM PST by sinkspur (Trust, but vilify.)
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To: Pittsburg Phil
Why JPII kept his head buried in the sand over this issue I'll never understand.

Cause after Poland got its Freedom and he survived an assassination attempt he took it as a sign he was here to convert the non Catholic multitudes

That is why he spent so much time traveling the globe to non Catholic countries etc etc instead of cleaning his own house

At least that is my arm chair psychological take
52 posted on 11/23/2005 6:47:00 PM PST by uncbob
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To: sinkspur
If Catholics are benefitting from the ministry of celibate homosexuals--and they clearly are--it's simply not true that they cannot function as Catholic priests.

No, they aren't. Catholics may be "benefitting" in the sense that they are receiving the sacraments through these priests, but a fundamentally disordered person is not capable of providing Catholics with the one thing they need most -- and that is the Truth (note the capital T in truth).

53 posted on 11/23/2005 6:51:06 PM PST by Alberta's Child (What it all boils down to is that no one's really got it figured out just yet.)
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To: uncbob; Pittsburg Phil
Why JPII kept his head buried in the sand over this issue I'll never understand.

There are likely two reasons:

First, it was common for the Communists, when attempting to discredit or marginalize someone, to first accuse them of being a homosexual. They did this as a matter of course to Catholic clergy behind the Iron Curtain. Karol Woytyla was likely influenced by this tactic, and was repelled when it was made against priests under His Papacy.

Second, he granted local bishops a lot of leeway in dealing with sensitive local issues. JPII figured clerical pederasty was confined to one country, and it was up to that country to deal with it.

54 posted on 11/23/2005 6:55:42 PM PST by sinkspur (Trust, but vilify.)
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To: Alberta's Child
Catholics may be "benefitting" in the sense that they are receiving the sacraments through these priests, but a fundamentally disordered person is not capable of providing Catholics with the one thing they need most -- and that is the Truth (note the capital T in truth).

What is "the Truth" to which you are referring?

You appear to be committing the heresy which says that God's grace depends on the disposition of the minister.

55 posted on 11/23/2005 6:59:09 PM PST by sinkspur (Trust, but vilify.)
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To: caisson71
Do they expect polls and public opinion to sway Pope Benedict? These people are too full of themselves

It just occurred to me that it's kind of neat that Pope Bennie isn't even here. They're just a bunch of people, way across the ocean, in that wacky place that thinks too highly of itself called America.

56 posted on 11/23/2005 7:01:44 PM PST by ichabod1 (There is cracking in the base. The Foundation is not sound. Reality Bites.)
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To: craig_eddy

"the Church would lose thousands"

I really, really doubt it.


57 posted on 11/23/2005 7:02:44 PM PST by pepperdog
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To: OpusatFR

There is an organization that they mostly belong to called the American Catholic Church that is full of rainbow flamers. Beware if you see an article that says something like "77% of American Catholics favor Female Ordination." They're talking about this schismatic cult or whatever. Google American Catholic Church and you'll see what I mean.


58 posted on 11/23/2005 7:04:15 PM PST by ichabod1 (There is cracking in the base. The Foundation is not sound. Reality Bites.)
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To: Accygirl
Since priests are supposed to be celibate, I don't see whether it's a problem whether they're attracted to people from the same sex or the opposite sex.

Homosexuality or same sex attraction, if you will, is a disordered condition. I suppose your argument can be made, but the document that was just published states that a man that is more attracted to men than to women cannot have normal relationships with either men OR women. Or so I read, I haven't read the bull yet.

59 posted on 11/23/2005 7:07:40 PM PST by ichabod1 (There is cracking in the base. The Foundation is not sound. Reality Bites.)
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To: uncbob

I read a theory here that in the Soviet occupation days he saw many people denounced with smears and accusations of homosexuality and he refused to entertain notions that it was rampant.


60 posted on 11/23/2005 7:10:41 PM PST by ichabod1 (There is cracking in the base. The Foundation is not sound. Reality Bites.)
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