Irving bid to recant Nazi line [Irving acknowledges gas chambers did really exist]

The Australian ^ | November 26, 2005

[Servant of the 9]

Deluded or just evil?

So9

[Anti-Bubba182]

".."changed some of the views he is so famous for"."

Lol! And if he get out of jail and Austria, he'll change back.

[Cicero]

I think Holocaust denial is antihistorical and disgusting, and I don't like historical revisionism, but I can't see what purpose is served by criminalizing the expression of an opinion and charging a British historian with a crime for speeches given in Austria in 1989, some 16 years ago.

There are a great many far more dangerous antisemites out there.

[Killborn]

His recantation shows him for what he really is; a cowardly, self-serving and lying hack and media w#0re.

[Revolting cat!]

Yes, hang this clear and present danger to the post-WWII Utopia. How dare he question the orthodoxy?

[Killborn]

At the same time, his arrest and indictment would make ol' Adolf very happy. It proves two things. It shows that the power of his idea is so great that Euroweenies shrink in fear before the mere mention of the word "Nazi" and collectively wet themselves at the sight of a Buddhist symbol tipped diagonally. More importantly, it shows that Europe is still ready for another Reich, because they are using the very same tactics Adolf perfected prior to invading Poland.

[zarf]

There are a great many far more dangerous antisemites out there.

Obviously the Austrians disagree.

Needless to say though, the "Palestinian historical narrative" of our times is the latest extension of Nazism.

[Cicero]

I suppose the Austrians disagree because after the Anschluss they joined the Nazis, and because Hitler was originally Austrian. Nazism needed to be rooted out. But I'm not sure that charging a foreigner for expressing his opinions sixteen years ago--or to put it more bluntly, for telling historical lies sixteen years ago--is helpful.

Nobody likes this kind of thing, but I don't think it's the equivalent of shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.

[Skywalk]

Uh, while I don't agree with criminalizing speech and censorship of any kind, I don't think he is reviled because he questions 'orthodoxy.'

And what 'orthodoxy' would that be? That millions of Jews died in the Shoah?

[RedMonqey]

"On the day before Irving faces a court hearing, his lawyer Elmar Kresbach said the historian had "changed some of the views he is so famous for"."



Being threatened with 1-10 years of hard time will tend to get one's attention.

Guess how many citizens would change their opinions if threatened also.

Considering a large percentage of Americans can't pull their fat a$$es off the couch to vote, my guess is the majority.

[Peter Libra]

Some figures.

Originally the Germans actually encouraged Jews to leave Austria. Some 130,000 left,about 30,000 to the United States.

Caught by the advent of war, 65,000 Austrian Jews were sent to concentration camps. Only 2,000 souls survived, this at the end of WW2. Some 800 Jews survived in Vienna itself, helped by Viennese.

Yeah, I guess the guilty conscience of these people is assuaged somewhat. I wonder how many Jews Irving killed? (Sarcasm).

Certain of the Europeans do not fool me- for I know what THEY did. The amount of Austrians who SAID they hid a Jew in the war,I believe, is of somewhat large,very large, proportions.

[Killborn]

Sadly, probably. That is why our Founders, in their infinite wisdom, instituted the First Ammendment to the Constitution. To be able to expose liberalism for the cancer it is, we must tolerate sharing the pulpit of free speech with odious morons such as the Brownshirt wannabes, KookyKrazyKrackers, lunatic leftists, and other losers of all stripes. Once you deny speech for the "right" people, there will come a day when the "wrong" people could not speak.

[RedMonqey]

"That is why our Founders, in their infinite wisdom, instituted the First Ammendment to the Constitution. "



That's my point exactly. I don't trust the government to decide what is ok (in the political field) and what is not. And certainly not to punish someone with prison for merely stating an opinion.

This Irving guy is a nutjob, just like Michael Moore but I would defend their right to show the world what total asses they truly are.

[zarf]

But I'm not sure that charging a foreigner for expressing his opinions...

As you clarified, it's not an opinion. Irving is spouting blatant lies. Mentally ill nut jobs spouting similar incoherent nonsense have been arrested and ultimately committed to psych wards after being swept off city streets.

I would tend to agree with you in the end, but this is pretty damned close to shouting "fire".

Understandably, it crosses the line in Austria and Germany.

[zarf]

And certainly not to punish someone with prison for merely stating an opinion.

How are Irving's claims in any way "Opinions"? It seems more like slander.

[beckett]

I had no idea this ludicrous nutjob had been arrested by the Austrians. When and how did that happen?

[SteveMcKing]

Lying is legal, though one could always be sued for damages.

(One can also be so sued for telling the truth...)

[beaver fever]

I was friends with a Polish Jew who lost 17 members of his family. He was the only one left. He harbored no animosity towards anyone including the Nazi's. He saw it for what it was a time of madness.

His name was Louis Perel and he created the Holocaust museum in Vancouver BC. He's gone now. God rest his soul.

[Fiji Hill]

In his bestseller Not Peace, But a Sword (1939), Vincent Sheean, an authoritative, if somewhat left-leaning journalist, provides a riveting description of the plight of Vienna's Jews in the months following the Anschluss and of the difficulties they faced in attempting to flee the Nazis. Given the difficulty Jews faced in obtaining exit visas from the Reich and entry visas to other countries, it's a wonder that so many were able to escape.