Ban on Homosexual Men From (Catholic) Priesthood Was Always in Place - Decision from 810 AD Cited

LifeSite ^ | November 30, 2005

[NYer]

Wednesday November 30, 2005

Ban on Homosexual Men From Priesthood Was Always in Place - Decision from 810 A.D. Cited

The term "homophobia" is "a slogan of intimidation", says Vatican consultant

ROME, November 30, 2005 (CWNews.com/LifeSiteNews.com) - A Vatican consultant, in an interview with the I Media news service, has observed that the Church has always taught that homosexuals should not become priests, since they suffer from a "structural incoherence" in their approach to human sexuality. The question of whether homosexual men should become priests has been raised repeatedly by Church leaders, and always answered negatively said Msgr. Tony Anatrella, a French Jesuit who is a consultant to the Pontifical Council on the Family. The French priest-psychologist cited decisions by the Council of Paris in 819, and the 3rd and 4th Lateran Councils in 1169 and 1215.

Writing in the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, in an article that appeared alongside the newly released instruction on homosexuality and the priesthood, Msgr. Anatrella wrote that the new Vatican Instruction barring homosexuals from Catholic seminaries was necessary because "homosexuality has become an increasingly worrisome problem," adding that the acceptance of homosexuality could have a "destabilizing" effect on the lives of individuals and on society at large.

Msgr. Anatrella said that homosexuality is "a tendency and not an identity." The Catholic Church, he argued, has a duty to warn against the acceptance of an "incomplete and immature" approach to human sexuality.

In practice, Msgr. Anatrella said in the I Media interview, experience has shown that when homosexual men become priests-- even if they are committed to chaste living-- "pastoral relations are very much complicated, and sometimes the teaching of the Church is neglected." Even if homosexual men struggle to live in accordance with the teachings of the Church, he explained, "the psychological effects of their tendency have repercussions on the pastoral level." Thus the Church has recognized the "collateral effects" of same-sex attraction, and concluded that such men should not be ordained.

The French Jesuit conceded that the Instruction from the Vatican may provoke protests, particularly from homosexual men who are already serving in the priesthood. But he told I Media that such protests reflect the fact that "they have already put themselves in an uncomfortable situation." Priests who experience same-sex attractions should redouble their efforts to remain chaste, he said. But in any case, Msgr. Anatrella stated: "Within the clergy, homosexuals do not represent an important proportion; they are a minority."

When questioned as to whether the Church might be accused of "homophobia," the French psychologist reacted quickly. The term "homophobia," he said, is "a slogan of intimidation." The Instruction insists on respectful treatment of homosexual persons, he pointed out; the Vatican is not encouraging or condoning hatred for those who suffer same-sex impulses.

Nevertheless, Msgr. Anatrella said, the Church has a duty to ensure that candidates for the priesthood are properly suited for pastoral ministry. Echoing an argument from the Instruction, he observed that "the priesthood is not a right."

[Knitting A Conundrum]

You know, I WAS actually agreeing with you.

[IMRight]

You know, I WAS actually agreeing with you.

So you're not any longer? :-)

[x5452]

(I am completely confused what your response means)

[Knitting A Conundrum]

No, I agree with you still. There is a range where it's just the natural background of unwanted sinfulness that clutters all of our lives, even the most holy, then there's the point where people are feeding it, and it's up to the spiritual directors to know the difference and deal with it appropriately.

[A.A. Cunningham]

That's a slight misstatement.

No it's not. Anyone with a room temperature IQ knows what was meant in 1961 by the inclusion of "tendencies." Since 82% of the abuse cases involved homosexuals, the idea that it's safe to ordain homosexuals who claim they are celibate and can remain so for life is wishful thinking.

"Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers."

Main Entry: ten·den·cy
Pronunciation: 'ten-d&n(t)-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Etymology: Medieval Latin tendentia, from Latin tendent-, tendens, present participle of tendere
1 a : direction or approach toward a place, object, effect, or limit b : a proneness to a particular kind of thought or action
2 a : the purposeful trend of something written or said : AIM b : deliberate but indirect advocacy

[IMRight]

No it's not. Anyone with a room temperature IQ knows what was meant in 1961 by the inclusion of "tendencies."

No offense, but that means you have a sub-room-temperature IQ. The Catholic Church very clearly differentiates between concupiscent desire and sinful actions.

Since 82% of the abuse cases involved homosexuals, the idea that it's safe to ordain homosexuals who claim they are celibate and can remain so for life is wishful thinking.

This may or may not be true... but it's irrelevant to the conversation.

"Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers."

Uh huh.... and the Church defines homosexuality as inappropriate behavior. It does not buy into what the world is selling.

[Aquinasfan]

The French priest-psychologist cited decisions by the Council of Paris in 819, and the 3rd and 4th Lateran Councils in 1169 and 1215.

Good find! Thanks.

[IMRight]

From the catechism (2357):

Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. "

Note that it is NOT the "exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex", but rather the behavior itself.

[tuesday afternoon]

From the catechism (2358):

The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.

So the orientation, or tendency as the Church puts it, is considered objectively disordered. That is why the Church put out the instruction reaffirming the ban on homosexual seminarians, chaste or not.

[IMRight]

So the orientation, or tendency as the Church puts it, is considered objectively disordered.

Of course it is.

That is why the Church put out the instruction reaffirming the ban on homosexual seminarians, chaste or not.

No they didn't. Or rather... not in the way you're implying it.

[klossg]

NYer:"Good to see some good Jesuits are still around."

You said it! Usually I see or hear "Jesuit" and I start to automatically cringe for what will come next.

It is Pavlovian Jesuit-itis.

Very good to see a Jesuit who stands for truth regardless of the pressure or spin of the moment! We are on our way with the Holy Spirit! God bless him!!

[tuesday afternoon]

Okay, explain where I'm wrong.

[B.O. Plenty]

Me too...it IS kind of confusing...the point I was trying to make was: is the question never asked of the prospective priest as to what his sexual persuasion may be. It occurs to me that the preisthood, with its access to young boys, would be kind of a magnet for a homosexual that leans toward pediofilia.

It would only make sense to me that "are you a homosexual" would be one of the questions that would be asked before any man is called to be a priest. I am not a Catholic, therefore know nothing about how a priest is made, but is there not some screening process, or background check for these guys?

[cherry]

already, today in our local paper here in Spokane Washington, our esteemed Bishop Skylstad is saying he will continue to have priests that are homosexual but not "too" homosexual, to paraphrase him....

and there are other bishops stating the same thing!!!!!

God love homosexuals,and we have them on both sides of our families, but the bishops must listen to the POPE!!!!

I have to start investigating some EAstern Rite churches if this continues....

I just swear, with our diocese already in bankruptcy and the parishes and schools at risk, and this IDIOT is not going to obey the Pope...how can we as practicing Catholics continue to give money to these people?

[A.A. Cunningham]

Nonsense

"A candidate who shows himself certainly unable to observe religious and priestly chastity, either because of frequent sins against chastity or because of a sexual bent of mind or excessive weakness of will, is not to be admitted to the minor seminary and, much less, to the novitiate or to profession. If he has already been accepted but is not yet perpetually professed, then he should be sent away immediately or advised to withdraw, according to individual cases, no matter what point in his formation he has already reached. Should he be perpetually professed, he is to be barred absolutely and permanently from tonsure and the reception of any Order, especially Sacred Orders. If circumstances should so demand, he shall be dismissed from the community, with due observance of the prescriptions of canon law."

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Main Entry: ten·den·cy
Pronunciation: 'ten-d&n(t)-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Etymology: Medieval Latin tendentia, from Latin tendent-, tendens, present participle of tendere
1 a : direction or approach toward a place, object, effect, or limit b : a proneness to a particular kind of thought or action
2 a : the purposeful trend of something written or said : AIM b : deliberate but indirect advocacy

Main Entry: in·cli·na·tion
Pronunciation: "in-kl&-'nA-sh&n, "i[ng]-
Function: noun
1 a obsolete : natural disposition : CHARACTER b : a particular disposition of mind or character : PROPENSITY; especially : LIKING
2 : an act or the action of bending or inclining : as a : BOW, NOD b : a tilting of something
3 a : a deviation from the true vertical or horizontal : SLANT; also : the degree of such deviation b : an inclined surface : SLOPE c (1) : the angle determined by two lines or planes (2) : the angle made by a line with the x-axis measured counterclockwise from the positive direction of that axis
4 : a tendency to a particular aspect, state, character, or action
- in·cli·na·tion·al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective

[NYer]

I have to start investigating some EAstern Rite churches if this continues....

Like you, I live in a RC diocese run by a reprobate bishop. (To gain a better understanding of how this happened, click on this link. Following the death of our pastor, the bishop assigned a new priest who was "light in the loafers". After assessing the parish situation, he gradually began to make changes. At first, these were imperceptible to the average "pew catholic". Much attention was given to the church 'decor'. As the 'appearance' of the church improved, "pew catholics" oohed and aahed and invited their friends. The parish began to grow. Next on his agenda was to introduce changes to the liturgy which included inviting the young Confirmation students to perform liturgical dance, banned by the USCCB in the US. I fought him on this and won but the victory was short lived as he introduced other liturgical abuses.

Two years ago I compiled a list of other parishes within the community, including Eastern Catholic Churches. After attending Mass at different churches each week, the Maronite Catholic Church came up on the list. After one visit, I knew I was home.

Eastern Catholic bishops and cardinals offer a prayer service for JPII

The Catholic Church is both Western and Eastern. As most of us realize, the Church began in the East. Our Lord lived and died and resurrected in the Holy Land. The Church spread from Jerusalem throughout the known world. As the Church spread, it encountered different cultures and adapted, retaining from each culture what was consistent with the Gospel. In the city of Alexandria, the Church became very Egyptian; in Antioch it remained very Jewish; in Rome it took on an Italian appearance and in Constantinople it took on the trappings of the Roman imperial court. All the churches which developed this way were Eastern, except Rome. Most Catholics in the United States have their roots in Western Europe where the Roman rite predominated. It has been said that the Eastern Catholic Churches are "the best kept secret in the Catholic Church."

The Vatican II Council declared that "all should realize it is of supreme importance to understand, venerate, preserve, and foster the exceedingly rich liturgical and spiritual heritage of the Eastern churches, in order faithfully to preserve the fullness of Christian tradition" (Unitatis Redintegrato, 15). Pope John Paul II said that "the Catholic Church is both Eastern and Western."

Check your local community at the following link and look into attending an Eastern Catholic Liturgy (not to be confused with the Orthodox Church).

Eastern Catholic Churches in the U.S.

The Eastern Catholic Rites retain the rich heritage of our church, without the "novelties" introduced into the Novus Ordo liturgy. Incense is used throughout.

I attend a Maronite Catholic Church. The Consecration is in Aramaic, using the words and language of our Lord at the Last Supper. Communion is ONLY distributed by the priest. It is by intinction (the priest dips the consecrated host into the Precious Blood) and is ONLY received on the tongue. The priest administers communion with the words: "The Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ is given to you for the remission of sin and eternal salvation".

A Roman Catholic may attend the Divine Liturgy at any Eastern Catholic Church. You can learn more about the 22 different liturgies at this link:

CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES

Should you have any questions about the Eastern Catholic Churches, please do not hesitate to freepmail me. Good luck on your journey! I will keep you in my prayers.

[x5452]

You're getting very specific.

The OCA, as an example have a two adult rule whenever adults are supervising children. 2 adults need be present.

That's all I was asking.

[The Cuban]

But the sin is the fantasy, as it was when you, presumably straigt (or developmentally coherent according to the fine Jesuit) fantasize

[IMRight]

But the sin is the fantasy, as it was when you, presumably straigt (or developmentally coherent according to the fine Jesuit) fantasize

Exactly! And if a heterosexual candidate is consumed by such fantasies (even if he remains physically celibate) - he can't be a priest either.

[IMRight]

Thanks.... but I'm a bit confused now. You started your post with "nonsense" as if you were disputing my point. Then you only posted things that supported my position.

Perhaps you were confused by this text as well? :-)