Posted on 12/01/2005 10:40:40 PM PST by seastay
Recently released crime statistics show the homicide rate in California is 265 percent higher than the death rate suffered by U.S. and British military personnel in Iraq.
According to the report "Crime in California 2004," compiled by California Attorney General Bill Lockyer, there were 2,394 reported homicides in the Golden State last year. That compares with 905 deaths of coalition forces in Iraq, chiefly Americans and Brits, during the same time period.
A monthly average of 75 deaths of American and British forces has remained fairly constant over the last two years.
The peak for homicides in California was in 1993, when there were 4,095 reported.
Such comparisons have been made by defenders of the action in Iraq, who say the number of casualties for a war of this length are extraordinarily low.
Opponents of the war claim the lives of the 2,000 Americans who have died since the initial invasion have been lost in vain.
Opined Toula Foscolos in the French Le Magazine: "More than 2,000 Americans have left their lives [in Iraq], thanks to the conniving and self-serving ways of their dim-witted president."
I'm surprised that we hear about US soldiers dying in Iraq, seeing as how it tends to make Muslims look bad. But then again, the MSM imputes those deaths to Bush, so it works out for them.
L
But haven't you heard the good new? We are being successful at securing Iraqi borders!
A Popular insurgency in California leads to hier death tolls.
That is actually a pretty low number. When a homicide is committed, you don't arrest because you don't know who it is, or you arrest someone because you do. For the most part, in a murder case, you can usually find the suspect unless they have fled the country which citizens rarely do, but illegals do often. Frankly, I'm surprise the statistic is not close to 100%
When we are done using this to promote our hot issues, you got look at this with a certain amount of horror. Something is really wrong, sports fans.
Actuall while the number of homicides in CA were larger than the number of US deaths in Iraq, the RATE is not larger as the article says.
That was my first thought when I read the article!!
Stunning news that ought to make every citizen
stand up and shout this from the roof tops!!!
That was my first thought when I read the article!!
Stunning news that ought to make every citizen
stand up and shout this from the roof tops!!!
It is baffling to me how anyone can attribute the death of any member of an ALL-VOLUNTEER military as being in VAIN.
This means the volunteer either did NOT know there were such a thing as WAR or that if there was a WAR he would be excluded from being a part of it.
Both excuses are beyond reasoning and enter the realm of fantasy.
Watch out when Mexicans and gang members figure out how to blow themselves up with Crack.
... no, it is not surprising that illegal aliens would kill without impunity here...but let us not profile (sarc off)
My thought exactly. You can count on WND to be sloppy. 2400 out of 33 million is not a higher rate than 905 out of 160,000. You'd think that even journalists must have taken a math course at some point.
Si, la raza wants to reannex old Mexico.
But our troops can shoot back.
Iraq is an active war zone.
California is not.
The comparison has value.
42,000 in the USA died last year in motor vehicle accidents - - around 2,000 every 6 weeks. The most likely to die are young people up to the age of 25. Howcome we don't get to see the coffins????
Wow! That puts things into perspective and needs to be repeated! And hopefully, repeated by every talk show in the country. I knew the illegal alien problem was bad, but had no idea things have gotten this bad.
These statistics are meaningless since they don't include the Iraqi casualties, or don't they count? There have been over 2000 casualties among the Iraqi security forces and, depending on who you believe, anywhere from 8,000 to 30,000 civilian deaths. All at the hands of the terrorists. All in 2005 alone. How does that compare with the California crime rate?
We need a timetable for immediate withdrawl from California, it's clearly a failure....
/sarc
(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")
So, how much money is Lockyer demanding of the Feds to "solve" this "Insurgency" and high "homicide rate" in CA?
To be fair why not add the population of Iraq, about 22,200,000
population California (2004 est.): 35,900,000
homicides California (2004): 2,394
--> homicide rate California: 0.0066%
US soldiers in Iraq and the population of Iraq(2004): 2,2330,000
US soldiers killed in Iraq (2004): 848
--> rate of US soldiers killed in Iraq: 0.0037%
In conclusion, WorldNet Daily article pointed out a very real fact; The homicide rate in the Iraq conflict about the same as CA . Also add to the fact that a large percentage of homicide is CA or committed by insurgents crossing our boarder too, so the CA numbers are striking, but all we hear about is Iraq. If these numbers are normal then the democrats should shut up, but of these numbers are high then the republicans should address our border insurgence to be consistant regarding their call for addressing borders (e.g Iraq) and security (US), cant have it both ways,,,,.
"So the chance for a Californian soldier in Iraq to get murdered is about 100 times higher than if he'd stayed at home." -viiince
Viiince, you really are a troll, aren't you.
Oh hey, let's recap viiinces statements!
"How do you prove a negative?
Ha! That's what Saddam said, too." -viiince
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1528123/posts?page=67#67
And let's not forget the post where you figured you might get a zot:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1524831/posts?page=37#37
In conclusion, WorldNet Daily article pointed out a very real fact; The homicide rate in the Iraq conflict about the same as CA .
Only if you do not count dead Iraqi civilians, non-US coalition fatalities, NGO and aid workers and civilian contractors. You are talking about a population of 22 million, but ignoring all the fatalities that didn't occur among a population of 160,000. In other words, expanding on the BS statistical manipulation WND started.
Not really, unless it compares two things that are comparable. It's like saying that more people die in auto accidents than on Wednesdays.
We are talking about US deaths only, the homicide rate of US citizens is the same in Iraq as it is in California, but we hear more about Iraq than CA, this is what it says.
Now Some people may not think that it is important that many of the CA deaths are caused by illegal insurgents crossing the border, while many of the same think it is a big issue in Iraq. Why shouldn’t California be important too?
Or are these murders in CA and Iraq insignificant given the population size that is equivalent in both regions?
which is it? We can’t have it both ways.
NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.
Sorry to raise my voice, but that point does not seem to be getting through. You have twice as many times the number of homicides against Americans in California as deaths of American servicemen in Iraq.
California has 200 times the population of Americans as Iraq has. Ignoring for the moment all the complicating factors (number of non-citizens in California, number of non-citizens in the U.S. armed forces, number of non-violent deaths among the U.S. troops in Iraq, number of non-citizen California murder victims, number of American contractors and aid workers in Iraq, etc.), California has 1% of the homicide rate on Americans that Iraq has.
One percent is not equivalent to one hundred percent. If you cannot grasp that, I do not know what else I can say.
but we hear more about Iraq than CA, this is what it says.
That's a fanciful reading. I'm inclined to believe that "what it says" is what it says in the first paragraph of the WND story:
Recently released crime statistics show the homicide rate in California is 265 percent higher than the death rate suffered by U.S. and British military personnel in Iraq.
Which is pure, unmitigated and utter BS, written by people who are counting on their audience to not look at the numbers, or not to care as long as they're willing to uncritically accept the farcical claim that California is more dangerous than Iraq.
Or are these murders in CA and Iraq insignificant given the population size that is equivalent in both regions?
Remedial lesson in how to lie with statistics: Shift the population under investigation. Lets take the WND example at hand. For California, you have a population of 33 million people. Count all of the murders whose victims are among those 33 million people.
For Iraq, count 22 million people, but count only the homicides among the 160,000 American servicemen in the country. Pretend that the two are equivalent. The relevant population size for U.S. servicemen in Iraq is 160,000, period.
If you're going to broaden the population to the whole of Iraq, you also need to expand the homicide numbers to include Iraqi civilians, non-U.S. coalition fatalities, civilian aid workers, and ordinary domestic disputes and other criminal homicides that have nothing to do with the insurgency. that's without even getting into the question of how many people killed and claimed to be insurgents actually were.
WND's claim is like saying that because fewer left-handed lesbians were killed in California than the total number of homicides in Iowa, that Iowa is vastly more dangerous than California. The numbers are not equivalent on any level.
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