Judge: Searches of bags in subway is constitutional (ACLU Loses)

NY Daily News ^ | December 2, 2005 | Unknown

[Jay777]

Random police searches of riders' bags to deter terrorism in the nation's largest subway system do not violate the Constitution and are a minimal intrusion of privacy, a federal judge ruled Friday. "The risk of a terrorist bombing of New York City's subway system is real and substantial," U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman said in a 41-page ruling tossing out a lawsuit brought by the New York Civil Liberties Union.

Citing testimony that up to 50 percent of terrorist acts were directed at transportation systems, he said the need to implement counterterrorism measures was "indisputable, pressing, on-going and evolving." He called the searches effective.

The Manhattan ruling came hours after Berman heard closing arguments in the lawsuit filed in federal court in Manhattan on behalf of several subway riders.

The judge said he had no doubt that the random searches were a reasonable method of deterring and detecting a terrorist attack. He credited testimony by police officials who said the policy might lead terrorists to choose a different target.

"Because the threat of terrorism is great and the consequences of unpreparedness may be catastrophic, it would seem foolish not to rely upon those qualified persons in the best position to know," Berman said.

In its lawsuit, the NYCLU said sporadic police searches which began in July following deadly mass transit bombings in London subjected innocent riders in New York to pointless and unprecedented invasions of privacy.

NYCLU Legal Director Christopher Dunn said: "We remain confident that this program is unconstitutional and we intend to appeal immediately."

"Common sense prevails," police Commissioner Ray Kelly said after the ruling.

[truemiester]

But does the ACLU still get paid? I know that most people think they does this pro bono but they dont. They get paid huge from the state. I bet these schysters get paid just for filing. The worst state paid but not run progam ever.

[Shalom Israel]

If these were different times, I might agree about police searches being intrusive; secure in my person, and all that Bill O'Right stuff.

In other words, "I believe in freedom, but I'm always ready to trade some of it for a bit of security." On this forum, we all know what Franklin had to say about that...

[CIB-173RDABN]

So to understand, an organization that (for once) is defending the 4th Amendment to the Constitution is 'helping terrorism'.

---

The ACLU does not care one bit about the 4th Amendment.

The goal is to break down our society. They will take any case that furthers that goal.

To you it appears they are defending the 4th Amendment, to me, they are attempting to take away a tool to fight terrorism.

Think of all the freedoms we have now because of the ACLU. A murderer must be released if the police did not dot every "i" or cross every "t" during the investigation. We are rapidly becoming free of any religion, and it has gotten to the point where a government employee is subject to suit for saying Merry Christmas, or crosses put up to honor fallen police officers must be removed.

The ACLU has brought us the freedom to stand on the corners of public streets, and aggressively "beg" for money. And the freedom to urinate anywhere anytime (if you are the right type of person). And we are free to defecate in business doorways.

Thanks to the ACLU we are free from hearing any traditional Christmas songs at a school performance, we are even free from Christmas, the very mention of the word being forbidden. Yes indeed, the ACLU has certainly expanded the freedoms of the average American.

These are just some of the great freedoms the ACLU has brought us. And now you complain that we have lost the freedom of transporting a bomb on a subway without the possibility of the police having the right to question you or look into your bag.

I can imagine all those killed in London would have preferred a little less of that type of "freedom".

Another name for complete freedom is anarchy. A society for it to work must have certain agreed upon rules. Some rules are laws, and some are just custom, and some are just something we all agree would be nice if we did not do some things in public.

The ACLU attacks these social agreements which breaks down our socity. I don't think I want to live in a "free" society where every person can act out every impulse they have. That would not be a free society, it would be were the strongest rule.

It is not laws that rule in a society, it is the social contract we all agree to. Organizations such as the ACLU want to break those contracts and they will do whatever they can to do it, and sometimes, they will take on a case conservatives may approve of, but remember their goal is not your goal.

[Mojave]

On this forum, we all know what Franklin had to say about that...

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

[eleni121]

Police State well under control.
____________________________________

Better this than jihadis with explosives. Did you forget we are at war?

[TheFrog]

Spoken like a true Stalinist.

[aimhigh]

Regardless of the issue, since the ACLU lost, the city needs to request attorney fees.

[sheltonmac]

Try watching people fall out of the WTC on fire like I did and ask me if I give a damn about having my bag searched on the subway.

Then bend over, grab your ankles and grit your teeth, because as technology improves, bombs will become smaller and easier to hide.

Surely law enforcement officials can count on you. I mean, if you did protest having your cavities searched, then you're no better than "traitors" like billbears who is doing everything he can to undermine the security of this nation and aid the terrorists by defending the Constitution.

You know, governments just love citizens like you!

[eleni121]

I'll trust the government more than the ACLU thank you! You've both been reading too much Orwell...get a grip.

[aligncare]

Shalom, It is a dilemma. But the subway is a public place, not our home or business. And in our free society, we seem to review these issues almost on a case by case basis. There are some safeguards.

Mojave, One word can change alot! Shalom's intent is understood, though. It is a dilemma.

[Mojave]

Shalom's intent is understood, though. It is a dilemma.

I agree. It's not simple at all.

[sefarkas]

"What you got in the bag son? Mind if I take a look?

This is the point. This type of random senseless question makes the police prosecutor, judge and jury because the LEO doesn't ask everybody.

The random searches before or after the turnstiles are useless. Have any of you rode the MTA subway lines in NY and looked out the windows between station platforms? The tunnels and all points between are filled with graffiti. I don't know who has the nuts and the time to paint while those trains are running, but the fact that they can paint so liberally in the tunnels means that anyone who wants to damage the NY subway system need not bother with paying the $2 fare.

[Cementjungle]

Police State well under control.

Are you opposed to screenings at the airport too? If not, then what's the difference?

[aligncare]

It is a dilemma. Societies all tolerate the necessity of policing themselves. But these are dangerous times because of an outbreak of a centuries-old 'virus' in Islam, called fundamentalism. Some of it's practitioners are fanatical and violent; but Western societies will not and must not yield to their demands.
The islamofascists may have chosen the wrong time and the wrong people to attack. Perhaps, the safeguards to our liberties are strong enough to withstand the test. We all hope so.

[eleni121]

The islamofascists may have chosen the wrong time and the wrong people to attack.
ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

They have. We have not yet been totally undermined and infected by post modern secularism. They chose the wrong era and I pray that they always will until the Lord chooses otherwise.

[Sir_Ed]

"nobody gives a damn about having their bags searched"

Why don't also we extend the searches to private homes?

In Bay Ridge, more and more people moving in are Muslim. So, using your logic, we should just set up block-by-block, door to door searches, because if a terrorist can hide explosives in their backpacks, they can certainly hide them in their houses!

Also, guns are a great danger in NYC. After we're done searching every Arab's house, they should start searching door-to-door for illegal guns, especially concentrating on Republicans and white people, since historically they are the ones known to support gun ownership.

That'll keep us safe, and it's for the children!

Ed

[WillamShakespeare]

We`re talking about common sense here, not blatant rights violations. This is isn`t Renoland where people are being burned to death for practicing their 2nd amendment rights or children being kidnapped right from their home.

The cops are searching bags not as a rights violation but as an act, they are acting like Gary from Team America. They don`t expect to find anything, but to use psychology and mess with Mohammeds head.

They want their presence be known so if some psycho is thinking of strapping 20 lbs of C4 to his belly and board a train, he`s going to think twice.

They also if you remember suddenly called off the bag searches so now Mohammed starts thinking "did they really call them off, are the cops now under cover now?"...It`s all about messing with their heads, upsetting their pattern.

This is why they also had bomb sniffing dogs in front of Port Authority, they know there is probably no way in hell they are going to catch any terrorist coming off a bus, but it`s better than letting Mohammed case the joint for months on end until he is 100% confident that it is wide open for attack. It`s the whole idea of letting Allah know we are still on the defensive so Allah will think twice before he tells Mohammed to meet his 72 virgins.

What we have to watch out for is other opportunities they might take advantage of, like Ali-G says, "Highjacking a train and crashing it into the White House"

After the first WTC bombing, you couldn`t get any type of vehicle into the WTC basement without it being searched from top to bottom, so Mohammed thought of other avenues and decided to bypass not only the buildings but the entire city altogether by taking advantage of the Algore led airline security business.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24638

[WillamShakespeare]

Watch this video and tell me what you just wrote again only this time imagine it is a car driving down your block.

http://www.ogrish.com/archives/10_marines_die_in_explosion_video_Dec_03_2005.html

The fact is if it comes down to searches, you`re damn right it should be done. Matter of fact I`ll do it myself. If I suspected my neighbor I`d break his freggin` door down, this isn`t peace time brother, we are currently literally fighting WW3 to quote that idiot Bill O`Reilly and it must be fought not only by the military but by civilians as well on every level.

People, Muslims, the ACLU don`t like it? Then tough. When those who don`t like it wake up and join the fight against these animals, when the whole world wakes up and joins INCLUDING Muslims, this war will be over.

This isn`t a war by radical Islam against the US, this is a war by radical Islam against humanity. We are fighting a war against cockroaches, absolute cowards who hide, who have attacked just about every country on this earth, and the only way to defeat these scumbags, the only way to purge them from this earth is to have EVERYBODY turn against them! And if the constitution needs to be bent a little, damn right it should be done. Joe Schmoe don`t like that he is wasting 2 seconds having his bag searched? F- HIM. Someone who doesn`t like having their bag searched is a creep who is sitting on the sidelines while others are putting themsleves on the line.

[concretebob]

I see that therapy has helped you get in touch with your feelings, Will.
Good job
;)

[hoosierham]

Did I miss the official announcement of the Constitution being suspended ?

Remember Adolph Hitler and his crew that murdered tens of millions and wanted to destroy freedom? Seems our grandfather beat him without giving up the very freedoms they fought for.

And if you kick in your neighbors' door you deserve to be met with deadly force like the jackbooted thug you aspire to be.