The Western myth of a Serbian Kosova

Bosnian Institute ^ | 29 November, 2005 | Branka Magaš

[mark502inf]

Well done, Hunden. Good to see a poster on FreeRepublic with your depth of knowledge on Balkans issues.

[ma bell]

A Physical Geography Project we had in college was of a great moment of ignorance. One of the students did their projects on Poland and laid claim that Telsa was Polish. My rebuttal after her presentation shot to hell her crediblity on the rest of her project. Needless to say, my intervention caused a poor grade, "C".

[ma bell]

Serbia had nothing to do with the 1944/5 creation of Kosovo/Vojvodina. That was done by the German-established regime and then eventually the Communists, led by Tito.

It is unfortunate that the modern day Serbia/Montenegro inherited the ill-advised creationed fictitious provinces- Kosovo, BiH, Vojvodina that led to wars and further wars.

You realize that NATO never recognized the Tito-established boundaries of internal Yugoslavia til they found it convenient? Why is it they did not? Due to the non-historicality of those provinces. Those names were of regions and were fictitiously created to usurp the "power away" from the Serbian people. The repositioning of internal borders were structered to further minimize the Serb population powerbase in politics and geo-politics. I can go on and on to refute what you wrote.

It is known to this very day you are Pro-Albanian and a rabid Serb/Jew hater.

[ma bell]

Where have you been? Does hoplite still believe I am you or You are me? lol

[Grizzly Adams]

Actualy Serbia was established in 1217. By Grand Duke Stefan Nemanja.

Modern Serbian state was established in Serb Revolution in 1804, lasted up until Turkish offensive in 1814, than again reestablished in 1815 as christian dukedom in Turkey.

Vojvodina, also serbian for Dukedom was established in 1848 as award for Serb aliance to Austrians.

In 1912 Kosovo anda Metohija were liberated from Turkish occupation, and Vojvodina Voted to enter Serbia in 1918 after Austria collapse. Vojvodina is 70% population Serbs.

That's fine. Really. But I wasn't talking about ancient history and it is clear Serbia was established long before in the middle ages. The EC's Declaration on Yugoslavia offered recognition to all six Yugoslav republics. A blatant violation of international law, by the way, ignoring the FINAL ACT HELSINKI 1975, the UN-Charter, the constitution of Yugoslavia and most af all the right to selfdetermination of the constituent yugoslav peoples. In his reply to the EC on 23 December 1991, Serbia's Foreign Minister recalled that Serbia acquired `internationally recognized statehood' as early as the Berlin Congress of 1878 and on that basis had participated in the establishment in 1918 of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes which became Yugoslavia. He concluded that Serbia `is not interested in secession.

[Grizzly Adams]

Where have you been? Does hoplite still believe I am you or You are me? lol

No time to hang around. Don't know what's up his mind, besides the usual garbage he's spitting around and his open hatred for everything that's serbian.

Ko ga jebe.

[Grizzly Adams]

In his reply to the EC on 23 December 1991, Serbia's Foreign Minister recalled that Serbia acquired `internationally recognized statehood' as early as the Berlin Congress of 1878 and on that basis had participated in the establishment in 1918 of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes which became Yugoslavia. He concluded that Serbia `is not interested in secession.

What is interesting here, is that the other State that participated in the establishment in 1918 of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, was the State of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. The Kingdom of Serbia and the State of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, a short-lived state formed from the southernmost parts of the Austrian-Hungarian monarchy after its dissolution at the end of the World War I by the resident population of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs, formed the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes which became Yugoslavia. That means, the serbian people west of the Drina, had formed their own state in 1918 regardless of the kingdom of Serbia. In 1991 the constituent serbian people in Bosnia, in Hercegovina, in Dalmatia, in Slavonia, in the Krajina were denied the right to self-determination and the right to form their own state, although they were entiteled to it it by the yugoslav constitution and the fact that they already had their own state in 1918, the state of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes.

[Grizzly Adams]

Just for graphic support and to make it clear what we are talking about, an ethnic map of the population of the austrian-hungarian empire in 1910:

http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nepek.gif

[Hunden]

The Germans had nothing to do with the creation of Kosovo and Voivodina as "autonomous regions". Tito did it. But contrary to Serb propaganda lies, he did not take them away from Serbia. They had never legally been part of contemporary Serbia before. As for Bosnia, it is a centuries-old political entity, which had become autonomous from Croatia in the 12th century. It even existed as a separate administrative entity of the Ottoman empire for the 350 years during which Serbia had disappeared in its midst.

Tito also understood that Serbia's pseudo-nationalism, with its outrageous territorial claims on its neighbours, was the main threat to the persistence of Yugoslavia, but he did not go far enough in refuting those claims. He should have made Kosovo a Republic, moved the federal capital to Sarajevo, killed not only Mihajlovic but also his followers, rather than allow them to join the Partisans in 1945 and, like Stalin did in the USSR for Russia, prevent the creation of a Serbian Communist party.

That could have prevented the Serbs from destroying Yugoslavia. And it would have been in the interests of the Serbian people, who have lost the most from its demise.

Now, if you are looking for evidence that pseudo-nationalist Serbs are rabidly anti-semitic, here are some links and quotations:

http://SerbianDefenseLeague.com/

http://www.compuserb.com/

http://www.skrewdriver.net/serb.html

"CANONIZING THE 'PROPHET' OF ANTI-SEMITISM: THE APOTHEOSIS OF BISHOP NIKOLAJ VELIMIROVIC AND THE LEGITIMIZATION OF RELIGIOUS ANTI-SEMITISM IN CONTEMPORARY SERBIAN SOCIETY (Part 1)*" By Jovan Byford http://www.rferl.org/reports/eepreport/2004/02/4-180204.asp)

"Holocaust History Misappropriated" by Philip J. Cohen, Midstream: A Monthly Jewish Review,  November 1992. Volume XXXVIII, No.8. http://www.geocities.com/famous_bosniaks/english/jewish_holocaust_serbia.html

http://www.hic.hr/books/seeurope/014e-stefan.htm#top

the Jews, associated with much of the scum of the earth, fled to our country and began to propagate such a better and happier state of affairs in a Communist state. (Chetnik leader P. Bacovic, October 1942)

A Chetnik proclamation of September 1942 claimed that an Ustasha, German, Jew or Gypsy may become a Partisan; in other words anyone willing on behalf of the foreigner to participate in the slaughter and killing of the best Serb sons.

The 9 March 1943 issue of the Chetnik newspaper Vidovdan described the Partisans as bandits led by the Zagreb Jew "Tito" and the Belgrade Jew Mose Pijade.

Nor did Chetnik anti-Semitism stop at words. As Israel Gutman’s Encyclopedia of the Holocaust notes: There were many instances of Chetniks murdering Jews or handing them over to the Germans.

Here are quotes from a Serb "canonized" by the "Serb Orthodox Church" two years ago:

the Devil taught [Jews] how to stand against the Son of God, Jesus Christ. The Devil taught them through the centuries how to fight against the sons of Christ, against the children of Light, against the followers of the Gospel and eternal life (Vladika Nikolaj Velimirovic, Words to the Serbian People through the Dungeon Window1985/1998, 193, quoted in http://sicsa.huji.ac.il/22byford.pdf).

Yet we have to pay respects to the present German Leader [Adolf Hitler], who… in the 20th century came upon Saint Sava's idea and who even though a lay person took upon himself a task within his own nation which is fit only for a saint, genius and hero. (Nikolaj Velimirovic "Nacionalizam Svetoga Save", in Nikolaj Velimirovic San o Slovenskoj Religiji: Odabrane misli i besede, Slobodna Knjiga-izdanja Vladimira Maksimovica, Beograd 1996, p. 36) http://www.kontra-punkt.info/arhiva/resources/nikolaj_citati.html http://www.blogovanje.com/matrix/komentari.php?id=123 http://www.nin.co.yu/2003-05/22/28968.html http://www.b92.net/info/emisije/insajder.php?nav_id=168158&yyyy=2005&mm=05

[Hunden]

The ephemeral political entities self-proclaimed by the Serbs on the states where they were but immigrants cannot be the basis for any territorial claims at the expense of the historical rights of their host nations.

The Serb claim that the right to self-determination applied to "peoples" while ignoring that they could only exercise it within the framework of the Republics and Autonomous provinces made no legal or political sense and that is why was soundly rejected by the "international community", which recognized the borders of some of those constituent entities for what they were according to the Constitution: those of "independent and sovereign states".

[Hunden]

It was Yugoslavia's only chance of survival. Only the Serbs' determination to destroy it killed Yugoslavia.

[Hunden]

The kettle calling the pot black.

[Hunden]

So mild actually that the Muslim converts wanted to be subjected to it, as it was an impressive avenue for social advancement.

[Hunden]

The Georgians are the only Orthodox people whose clerics have not turned them into anti-Muslim and anti-Catholic fanatics. They should recognize the authority of the Pope and thumb their collective noses at Russian imperialism.

They are also the only nation of the world with the dubious privilege of having both Turkey and Russia as neighbouring states. They know that the Russians have been much worse for the Georgian nation.

[MarMema]

They would never agree with you. For one thing they snubbed the pope and loudly protested some sort of agreement with the Vatican. For another they do not like the Turks at all.

[F-117A]

So mild actually that the Muslim converts wanted to be subjected to it, as it was an impressive avenue for social advancement.

While Muslims may not have objected to their daughters being sent to a harem in Turkey, the Christians certainly didn't want that for their daughters. Nor did the Christians want their sons ripped from them, sent to Turkey to be brainwashed and sent back to terrorize them!

[ma bell]

moron, reread what i wrote then rewrite what you posted to me.

words you have chosen are rabidly prejudiced and racial towards the Serbs.

[eleni121]

You post an article from a propaganda mouthpiece supported by leftwing foundations that publishes Communists like Daniel Cohn-Bendit. Wow...groundbreaking (sarcasm)

Better you should read here:

http://www.serbianna.com/

[FormerLib]

The Soros fluffers cheering each other on, what a laugh!

[Hunden]

"Terrorize" them? One of them restores the Serb patriarchate in 1557. Some "terrorizing".
To be sure, the Serbs were then the Otomans' faithful allies, and were rewarded by wide-ranging privileges given to their church.